NewgonWiki - User contributions [en]

Childlove

2024-08-30T21:44:40Z

JohnHolt:

{{Template:MAI}}__NOTOC__The term '''childlove''' or '''childlover''' '''(CL)''' was a popular community euphemism for [[Pedophilia|pedophile]] in the 00s and continues to be used in two senses:

* As a label for people attracted to both prepubescent boys and girls, and
* As a generic term for someone who may be attracted to either prepubescent boys or girls.

==Popularization in the mid-00s==

Some had advocated the use of the childlover label to bring the wider [[boylove]]r and [[girllove]]r communities together, believing that the communities have much to gain by joining forces rather than arguing their separate causes each on their own. They also believed that there are many similarities in girllove and boylove relationships, especially the fact that both types of relationship involve an adult and a minor, often a child. Others objected to the childlove label, and its use has faded somewhat in the following decades.

===Opposition===

Some [[Hebephilia|hebephiles]] rejected the term because teenagers are no longer "[[child]]ren". The term was seen as a divisive element within the communities, thus putting it at odds with its goal of unification. It was also observed that the term "love" has romantic connotations that might not describe all such attractions, and could be seen as an attempt at "sugarcoating pedophilia". Inclusive socio-legal terms such as [[Minor Attracted Person]] and [[Youthlove]]r are now more popular than childlove, although the term persists as a more narrow identity for pedophiles.

====Reactionary opposition====

A small number of MAPs rejected the term because they believed that boylovers and girllovers had conflicting political interests. Some claimed the types of relationships with children differ; that while boylovers are interested in mentorship and friendship, girllovers are more oriented toward romance.

==Gallery==

Various symbolism has been tied to CL identity. These included an "AmaroSymbol", proposed by [[AP]], and later submitted to Newgon's "[[Flag proposal 2009]]".

<gallery>
File:Clomal.png|[[Rookiee]]'s Childlove Media Activism Logo - incorporating [[GLogo]] and [[BLogo]]. Created for [[Pedologues]].
File:Clogo.png|CLogo - commonly used in the 00s, still used by some online and Dutch activists. Led to a 2023 controversy concerning its similarity to that of a German Transsexual organization<ref>See, e.g. [https://reduxx.info/germany-woman-warned-by-court-after-questioning-butterfly-symbol-used-by-trans-rights-group/ Reduxx], and [https://www.queer.de/detail.php?article_id=46874 Queer.de]</ref>
File:CLLLL.png|Child Logo - used occasionally as a [[GLogo]]/[[BLogo]] alternative in novel flag format.
File:3DCLogo.png| 3D Child Logo - created by Wardyn
</gallery>

== 'Childlover' in other languages ==

*Quenya: hínandil
*Sindarin: chínandil

==Links==

*[https://archive.is/7WsmB MAP Wiki] - Some alternative symbols and designs.
*[https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/parents-warned-over-innocent-looking-7843597 Mirror (UK) scare story]
*[https://ourlovefrontier.wordpress.com/page-the-clogo-archive/ CLogo Archive (Steve Diamond)] - various adopted and unadopted symbolism.
*[https://archive.ph/U1I9X CLogo Archive (official)] - This was the CLogo project home, maintained by the original group of activists.
*[https://web.archive.org/web/20051101165116/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childlove_movement Childlove Movement (Wikipedia Archive)] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20051031040826/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childlover Childlover] - The term was once popular enough to merit Wikipedia articles.

==See also==

*[[Minor Attracted Person]]
*[[Minor attracted neologisms]] - such as '''pedosexual'''.

==References==

[[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Terminology]][[Category:Terminology: MAP]]
[[Category: Countries and Cultures]][[Category:Countries and Cultures: Subcultures]]

Newgon

2024-02-20T15:35:30Z

JohnHolt: promote an underutilized section

__NOTOC__[[Image:Nheadsmall.png|frame|Original 2007 Logo]]'''Newgon Organization''' (aka '''Newgon''', primary benefactor of the '''Yesmap''' server) is an informal activist organization first set up at '''Newgon.com''' by '''Daniel Lievre''' and '''Jillium''' on Jun 8, 2007. Newgon, which has few official affiliates and no membership register, was founded after Google's [[censorship]] campaign against a number of [[Minor Attracted Person|MAP]] blogging [[Blogger censorship|sites]], and was most active until around 2010 and again after 2021.

The organization's purpose is to produce concise information resources relating to MAPs and minor-adult sex, for the use of online guerilla activists and trolls. It has also hosted forums for general discussion of these themes, private forums to organize information campaigns, and helped organize groups of MAPs and allies who seek to raise awareness online. The organization's projects are maintained by the [[Newgon Support Team]]. Any websites it publishes or funds are registered and hosted with high-end freedom of speech providers and proxying services for the purpose of privacy.

The '''Newgon.net''' domain hosts the informational wiki you are currently reading, along with an archived [[Uncommon Sense|webmagazine/blog]]. '''Yesmap.net''' points to projects supported by Newgon.

For most of its lifespan, the organization has employed an official color scheme of navy, azure and yellow in most of its materials.

==Gallery==

:''See also the gallery in [[MAP visibility on Twitter]], for a small selection of sometimes Newgon-related campaigns.''

<gallery>
File:TNWNewgon.png|TNW's 2012 investigation
File:Newgontwt.jpg|Original May 2022 Twitter Account
File:Zoostrugnewgon.png|Reaction to the original account
File:NewgonOrg.png|Typical content that followed
File:Groomingnewgon.png|Various people on social media have expressed concern about the information scheme emanating from Newgon
File:NewgonAug22.png|Newgon's 2nd Twitter account (Aug 2022) arrived with a challenge that Twitter ultimately refused
File:Newgondeace.png|Organizational account addresses the unusual family history of a conservative journalist who tweeted approvingly about killing pedophiles
File:Mastodon-newgon.png|Professor Newgonsky almost becomes a meme on [[Anti-contact|Anti-c]] Mastodon
File:Newgonconspiracy.png|Paranoid polemicist and third-tier academic, [[Alaric Naudé]] has used an influence diagram to explain how he believes that Newgon is part of a "pedophilia normalization movement" connected to Disney and [[Michel Foucault]].
File:Newgonnaude.png|In late 2022, Naudé, and the conservative feminist/"gay" assimilationist front-group, ''[[Gays Against Groomers]]'' were involved in an outrage campaign against Newgon<ref>[https://archive.is/oyLMR MAPs against Groomers account]</ref>
File:Newgongag.png|After thanking the aforementioned organization for their help, Newgon then trolled them back with Bill Maher quotes
File:Clapback.jpg|One of various initiatives in 2023
</gallery>

==Potted history==

'''Daniel Lievre''', a homosexual [[Ephebophilia|ephebophile]], states that in 2005, his interest was piqued by a mention of [[NAMBLA]] on '''Rotten.com''' an old-fashioned, now defunct website featuring comment threads on shocking and bizarre content. He found out about [[Vereniging MARTIJN]] after some research and volunteered to proof-read a couple of their English articles. He then set about perfecting his debating abilities in multiple explosive threads on a forum which we are almost certain was the [[Freethought and Rationalism Discussion Board‎‎|IIDB (Internet Infidels Discussion Board)]]. This inspired him to set up a [[Debate Guide]] on Google's free hosting service, with a collaborator from the Netherlands. To make his writings more accessible, he then set up the now de-archived '''debateguide.blogspot.com''' and another blog that riduculed "anti pedophile" [[Vigilantism|vigilantes]]. After just a few months, this blog was removed in a general [[Blogger censorship|purge of 30-50 similar blogs]] after mass reporting campaigns. His google pages were then removed as well, although he did have some success address squatting for others who lost their blogs.<ref>[https://www.boychat.org/messages/1068180.htm BC Lievre - BlogSquat]</ref> After a few dead-ends, Lievre was directed towards NearlyFreeSpeech.net, a paid host that (at the time) was only concerned with the legality of its content. Using this service, and the help of others, including a web administrator using the name '''Jillium''', he rehosted his Debate Guide, which was soon to be followed by a blog, wiki and forum.

After ceasing blogging activity, NewgonWiki then hosted a [[Uncommon Sense|webmagazine]], which provided a digest of news articles, activist updates, academia, as well as editorials. Organisations such as [[Absolute Zero]] and [[SOSEN]] were frequently ridiculed. This ran for over a year, as the general projects expanded. However, from around 2010, the project seemed to go into decline, with forum outages, administrative departures and lower participation in core projects. In 2013, NearlyFreeSpeech.net posted a warning that they would terminate site services due to the politically sensitive nature of the content, but a new host and administrator could not be found at the time. This resulted in Newgon.com going offline for a while, but the site was re-hosted by an anonymous person in late 2013, after which it was shuttered due to lack of activity and archived at Newgon.net by mid 2014.

In late 2021, previous associates of Newgon.com and its network of activists launched a plan to rebrand Newgon.net and open the forums, with a start date of late 2021 or early 2022. Instead, a private discussion group was set up, and a public chat room was hosted in order to meet the demands of modern communication.

===Individuals===

From what little information we have, there seems to have been a few individuals who frequently volunteered for Newgon in the early years. They were all linked to the early MAP blog '''[[AttractedToChildren.org|ANU/ATC]]''', thus playing an important role in coining and popularizing the [[Minor Attracted Person (archive research)|MAP]] neologism and founding this website in their teens:

====Daniel Lievre (Founder/Originator/Admin)====

He is enigmatic and hard to research, because he often used pseudonyms to mock his trolls, or female pseudonyms to extract information - for example, from Wikipedia Admins. According to his written profiles, he was 19, and a University Student from Plymouth, in the UK. We know he was preoccupied with community-building and site moderation, and tended to be a forward-thinking activist and troll who created multiple identities on news sites, Wikipedia and various online fora. He was an occasional BoyChat poster.

====Jillium (Founder/Admin)====

Jillium was another young activist, who started at around 17 years of age. His location was unknown, and he tended to be very quiet on forums, preferring to compile large anthology lists for the Wiki. He was known as a competent web admin. Jillium also posted on GL forums and was a very effective Wikipedia activist, with a deep knowledge of the MediaWiki software and interface.

====BLueRibbon (Contributor)====

Another blogger (ANU founder) in his late teens - he was non-affiliated, but submitted a lot of information to our legal sections. Also known as a BoyChat poster, he was known to be active in the wave of [[Wikipedia censorship of MAP related topics|Wikipedia]] MAP activism some of our current contributors took part in. First person known to regularly use [[Minor Attracted Person|MAP]].

==Notability==

Newgon is notable for being the first website to host an article defining a [[Minor Attracted Person|MAP]], and has been cited in academic and legal documents.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Satris |first=Michael |date=2009-10-16 |title=Answer Brief on The Merits |work=(in re. Miguel Molina) |url=https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/S173260_4_petitioners_answer_brief_on_the_merits.pdf |access-date=2023-05-12 |website=Courts.ca.gov |language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Ribeiro |first=Wendell |date=2023-04-22 |title=Ativismo Pedófilo: Breve Histórico e Reivindicações |work=ResearchGate|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/370202231_Ativismo_Pedofilo_Breve_Historico_e_Reivindicacoes |access-date=2023-05-12 |website=[[ResearchGate]] |language=Portugese}}</ref> As detailed in the [[Minor Attracted Person (archive research)|article]], Newgon's cofounder, '''Daniel Lievre''' and supporting contributor, '''BLueRibbon''' were the first authors to regularly use the term, on a now defunct blog known as '''ANU'''/'''ATC''' ([[AttractedToChildren.org]]) in early 2007. The term became somewhat popular in the community, entering academic parlance via organizations such as [[B4U-ACT]], who had already previously contributed to the success of the parent term, "Minor Attracted Adult", which was cited in some academic works. "MAP" first entered the public arena in 2018 via social media, and gained widespread attention in 2022. Newgon is also responsible for publishing the first concept of a gradient '''[[MAP Flag|Flag for MAPs]]''', with a less well-known prior concept similar to the present one being submitted to an incomplete [[Flag proposal 2009|2009 competition for a united symbol]].

===Pre-2014 Archiving===

*In an article that quoted [[Wikipedia:Neal Baer|Neal Baer]], the producer of [[Law and Order: SVU]], the [[Homosexuality|gay]] news site afterelton.com claimed that a 2009 ''Hardwired'' edition featured a "pedophile rights group" based on Newgon.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20091026142121/http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2009/10/law-order-pedophile-rights-episode?page=0,1 Afterelton Web Archive]</ref> Our founder was portrayed as the "pedo-rights kingpin" Kevin O'Donnell, played by Garret Dillahunt.<ref>[https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Kevin_O%27Donnell_(Law_%26_Order:_SVU) Kevin O'Donnell]</ref>
*The group is probably most famous for its 2007-8 subversion of '''Wikipedia''' via a private mailing list, private forum and guerilla sockpuppet infiltration campaign. Our article, [[Wikipedia censorship of MAP related topics]] covers some of those activities.
*Newgon was mentioned in the article "Creepedia" by American Greatness,<ref>[https://amgreatness.com/2020/08/07/creepedia/ Creepedia]</ref> "A journey into the dark corners of the deep web" by TNW,<ref>[https://thenextweb.com/news/mail-order-drugs-hitmen-child-porn-a-journey-into-the-dark-corners-of-the-deep-web Mail-order drugs, hitmen & child porn: A journey into the dark corners of the deep web - TNW]</ref>, in the Quebec Journal<ref>[https://www.journaldequebec.com/2010/04/07/les-nouveaux-pedophiles Quebec Journal: Les nouveaux pédophiles ("The new pedophiles")]</ref> and in an edition of the podcast [[Uncommon Sense Edition 4|MalcolmOutLoud]]. It is often compared, albeit in pejorative terms to Wikipedia.
*The site was a favorite with Google Groups polemicists and has been criticized repeatedly on [[Wikipedia censorship of MAP related topics|Wikipedia]] itself. It has been listed on various Hidden Wikis and alternative Hidden Wikis (onion sites).

===Post 2021 Reopening===
[[File:Newgonbaby.png|thumb|Auto-generated baby name "Newgon".]]

*Materials produced by the site have been shared by some alternative right trolls in an effort to sow confusion and division among their opponents (often mainstream Liberals and the LGBT community). This, among other things led to misinformation suggesting that the site was an operation of 4Chan, or associated with such users.
*MAP awareness raising on [[MAP visibility on Twitter|Twitter]] saw an increase in Newgon.net references and meme usage post 2021. The organization is often suspected of being involved in [[pro-c]] agitating within the [[MAP Movement]], and is considered off-limits on certain forums because of its stance.<ref>[https://forum.prostasia.org/t/requesting-resources-like-memes-and-infographics-to-share-with-others-on-the-topic-of-hebe-ephebophilia/2672/5 Prostasia Fdn, Moderation position re. Newgon]</ref> In reality, Newgon, until 2023, provided resources/information to an activist cell called '''[[Help:Joining PCMA chat|PCMA]]''', which seeks to make it easier for MAPs to conduct awareness-raising campaigns online, be they related to pro-c or agnostic modes of activism.
[[File:Soyteens.png|thumb|Soyjak artists start a supposed doxxing campaign against Newgon. It is hard to tell how serious they were about this endeavor]]
*In early May, 2022, Newgon briefly ran a Twitter account at '''@NewgonOrg''' - gaining almost 100 followers over a 3-day period, and 15-35 likes on some of its content. Despite posting a mixture of research, anti-[[Research: The Dangers of Stigma|stigma]] and moderate pro-choice material, the account was soon suspended after a mass-report campaign. Newgon re-created their Twitter account in August 2022, as '''@Newgon2007''', lasting for just over three weeks before being suspended on 100 followers. The content of the second account was almost entirely composed of retweets without comment. Newgon immediately created an account under '''@MAPSafety''', aimed at distributing a list of 200+ harassers to Minor Attracted People in order to prevent specious mass-report campaigns and censorship, but it was again banned. Newgon again created a Twitter account '''@NewgonOrg2007''' in the wake of free-speech advocate, Elon Musk's takeover in late October/early November, 2022. In this instance, the organization accused the conspiracy-fringe child protection campaigner [[Alaric Naudé]] of circulating lies that necessitated their re-emergence, laid into [[Jon Uhler]] as a "religious lunatic" and took responsibility for a range of viralized psy-ops that took place over the preceding 10 months, stating that they were carried out in response to censorship. The account requested to enter into a "dialogue" with the incoming content-moderation committee over the Terms of Service, with the implicit offer being their withdrawal from those "baiting" strategies.<ref>[https://archive.ph/3noXf NewgonOrg2007 archive]</ref> This account was suspended in late January, 2023.
*Towards the end of August, 2023, Newgon was subjected to an unsophisticated attack by "Soyteens" from chan-culture boards concerned with the creation and posting of Soyjak memes. The site sustained no damage and suffered no downtime - angering some users.<ref>One of a number of threads on soyjaks.party (soyjak.party was taken offline just before this) - [https://soyjaks.party/soy/thread/4502019.html We should take down Newgon]</ref>
*Newgon financially and materially supports initiatives which expand the [[Minor attracted community]], including counteracting [[censorship]].

====''Yesmap server'' and ''Newgon Information Center''====

An experimental publicity/engagement campaign was planned under the ''[[Yesmap]]'' banner, with projects such as a group editorial and news aggregation blogging service proposed. These may (as of 2024) instead be forwarded under other banners, with collaborators from outside of Newgon, including former members. While the overall aim of this campaign was to refine knowledge and hone skills for future efforts, Yesmap (as a server) has already made a significant impact upon the [[pediverse]] by way of setting up a [[Help:Joining PCMA chat|Matrix chatserver]], on which various [[MAP visibility on Twitter|pro-visibility]] online campaigns have been organized. The [[PCMA]] group is now independent of Yesmap, and by extension, Newgon.

Newgon plans to increase its [[NewgonWiki:Getting involved|funding of Yesmap]] and other initiatives roughly in proportion with increasing visibility for MAPs in general. In the near term (3-5 years), this will include creating organizational websites for both Newgon and Yesmap, and supporting a blogsite and clearweb forum when possible. Newgon has also pledged funding to an independently administrated video sharing instance within the [[pediverse]], following the 2023 technical closure of [[FreeSpeechTube]]. The new site is supported by unaffiliated volunteers and is being designed in such a way that it will automatically republish all of the videos lost from FST.

In the longer term (7-15 years) Newgon is planning to change the appearance of NewgonWiki, in such a way that it becomes indistinguishable as a Wiki, and subsequently rebrand it as ''Newgon Information Center''. When this becomes technically possible, the amount of concise content on the Wiki will be projected to rival the breadth of information collected on black or gay history. As a result of this increase in volume, "subprojects" will be created (such as ''Project [[Pederasty]]'', ''Project [[Girllove|GL]]'' and ''Project MAP Identity'') - functioning as de-facto sub-encyclopedias. It will also become necessary to divorce some parts of the Wiki entirely from the project. Chief among these will be the database of memes, which will be given its own domain and possibly a new owner.

At some point within the next 2 decades, Newgon is seeking increase funding to employ or co-employ full or part-time web technicians, researchers and writers to help maintain the large volume of knowledge.

==Newgon Organization's position youth==

Newgon was founded by the above a group of teenage MAP activists, and maintains an unusual and nowadays unique line on the subject of youth (at least for a MAP/ally-led organization).

While Newgon opposes all offending, their pro-[[Youth Rights|youth rights]] agenda favors a revised [[Ethos of Newgon|elective age of consent at 12]]. Newgon maintains that what for MAPs is a self-interested position is nevertheless "[[Research|evidence-based]]" - pointing to the testimony of MAP Allies and researchers. The website makes repeated references to adults' [[Accounts and Testimonies|positive testimonies]] of sexual relationships in their youth; controversially arguing that they should be treated as ''de-facto'' youth-advocacy. [[Youth Perspectives|Youth perspectives]] are also encouraged and permitted in public discussions, since the site has strict controls against "adult material" and is supported by [[UNCRC|international conventions]] and other human rights agreements operative in the relevant jurisdictions.

==Deradicalisation==

In some instances, volunteers for Newgon-supported projects have attempted to deradicalise new members. In 2023, three such volunteers "talked down" a chat user who was intending to unleash a sock-farm of troll accounts peddling illegal material on the [[Virtuous Pedophiles]] forum, and report the site to authorities.

==See also==

*[[Ethos of Newgon]] - Positions (binding and non-binding) and press-releases.
*[[Debate Guide: Newgon's History]] - Debate article addressing some common criticisms of "Newgon positions".
*[[Help:Editing|Editing Portal]] - Inner workings of NewgonWiki.
*[[Krumme13]] and [[Virtuous Pedophiles]] are similar unincorporated organizations.

==External links==

*[https://encyclopediadramatica.online/Evil-unveiled.com/Newgon.com Evil Unveiled] article on Newgon
*[https://www.boywiki.org/en/Newgon BoyWiki] article on Newgon
*[https://map-wiki.com/index.php/Newgon MAP-Wiki] article on Newgon, and [[Debate Guide: Newgon's History|our reply]] to some of the distortions contained therein

==References==

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Censorship]][[Category: Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Cyber Activism]][[Category:Youth]][[Category:Organisations]][[Category:Organisations: Sympathetic]][[Category:Organisations: Web-based]][[Category:Organisations: International]][[Category:Websites]][[Category:Websites: Sympathetic]][[Category:Websites: MAP]]

MAP Movement

2024-02-18T20:53:22Z

JohnHolt: /* External links */

__NOTOC__{{MAI}}The '''MAP Movement''' is a social/political movement consisting of [[Minor Attracted People|MAPs]] and their allies. The common goal of this movement is [[Research: The Dangers of Stigma|destigmatization]]/visibility, although some parts of the MAP movement ([[pro-c]]/pro choice) are also in favor of [[Age of Consent|age of consent]]/broader [[Youth liberation movement|social reforms]]. Pro-choice MAP activists commonly use resources such as our [[Research|research]] anthologies to argue their case. Anti-c/[[Anti-contact|anti-contact]] MAP activists tend to associate with organizations/forums such as [[Virtuous Pedophiles]], [[Prostasia Foundation|MSC]] and [[Pediverse]] instances.

==The present (second-wave) MAP Movement==

:''More information: [[Minor attracted community]] and [[Minor Attracted Person (archive research)|development of MAP as a term]].

Second-wave activity started with the widening availablity of the internet<ref>Tremblay, Pierre. ''"Convergence Settings for Non-predatory 'Boy Lovers.'"'' Situational Prevention of Child Sexual Abuse (Crime Prevention Studies, vol. 19). Ed. by Richard Wortley and Stephen Smallbone. Monsey, NY: Criminal Justice Press, 2006. pgs. 145-68 (pg. 145).</ref> at around the turn of the century, and developed considerably in the late 00s and 10s, as the actual term MAP [[Minor Attracted Person (archive research)|came into use]]. The first nominally second-wave activist was probably the hugely divisive [[BoyChat]] user [[David Riegel]], in the year 2000. Others followed, such as [[AP]], Rookiee and Clayboy - mainly [[pro-c]], and referring to themselves as [[boylove]]rs/[[girllove]]rs, or by other novel terms of identification. [[IBLD|International Boylove Day]] was set up, and some real life meetings took place - with as many as 50-100 attendees. Organizations such as [[B4U-ACT]] started to work more closely with the community, and sites such as [[Newgon]] sought to make the literature published by 1st-wave predecessors (i.e. [[Ipce]]) more accessible. "Minor Attracted Person" started to be used as an umbrella term, and increasingly as a term of self-identification. By around the mid-10s, as [[Virtuous Pedophiles]] and social media [[NOMAP]]s emerged from the shadows, a small but cohesive movement using MAP as a term of self identification had finally formed. By the 20s, after numerous publicity incidents, "Minor Attracted" was responsible for at least three times as many impressions as the [[NAMBLA]] keyphrase on American social media platforms.

===Present activity===

:''See also [[Minor attracted community]].

The only present (active) MAP-originated ''campaigning'' organizations are:

*The aforementioned '''[[B4U-ACT]]''' (a registered nonprofit and collaboration with Mental Health Professionals - public activity limited to publishing and social media).
*The self-explanatory '''[[Virtuous Pedophiles]]'''.
*'''[[Newgon]] and the Yesmap Campaign''', which tends towards a 50/50 split of MAPs and allies, and is concerned with visibility and social media.

The well established German pro-c media portal [[Krumme13]] and the organization [[NAMBLA]] are still active at managerial level, and the latter still maintains a small network. [[Ipce]] continues as an archive, but not as a forum.

B4U-ACT was the first organization of the second-wave, and their limited campaigning remains to this day secondary to providing services. They are also ''contact-agnostic'', i.e. concerned with destigmatization, and do not take a position on [[Age of Consent]] or similar issues. Virtuous Pedophiles are an explicitly [[anti-contact]]/[[NOMAP]] organization, and Newgon/Yesmap (Newgon fund this website and Yesmap's facilities) have a moderate [[pro-c|pro-choice]] position, as well as supporting destigmatization of all chronophilias. Therefore, "counterintuitively", the MAP organization with considerably more pedophile members is also the most [[anti-contact|anti-c]]. [[Prostasia Foundation]] are often mistakenly labeled as a "covert pedophile activist" organization, following a hit piece written by third-tier academic and small-time culture war influencer, Dr. Alaric Naudé. In reality, Prostasia is an organization founded to alter the direction of ongoing child protection efforts, and is composed of a mixture of professionals and writers. It forwards an unusual mix of zeitgeist and radical philosophies, but even we do not know a single person from this organization.

'''Online activism is known to take place on a variety of public facing fora. Those we are fairly sure about follow:'''

*'''[[Pediverse|Fediverse]]''' ('''Mastodon and Pleroma''' in particular) - these decentralized platforms have been used by large numbers, but are highly specialized and involve little public interface. In layman's terms, these sites are like a "privatized version of [[MAP visibility on Twitter|Twitter]] or Facebook".
*'''Twitter''' - has had a [[NOMAP]] contingent ever since said movement was founded, and particularly after numerous NOMAPs were banned from Tumblr in 2018. However, most MAPs on Twitter are not outwardly politically active - see [[Minor attracted community|our article on this community]]. Overall MAP membership saw a boom in the time around the '''MAP Flag publicity''' of 2018 and 19. Many were then banned, and advocacy for pedophilia was defined as counter to the T+C, but small groups of determined sockpuppeteers persist, along with private accounts. Numerous MAP activists (around 50%) on Twitter are not MAPs themselves and simply enjoy researching/arguing over the topic due to its unique ability to trigger irrational responses while providing reams of little-known [[Research|peer-reviewed literature]] to back up sealioning/trolling strategies.

Further, we have seen limited activity on:<div style="column-count:2;-moz-column-count:2;-webkit-column-count:2">
*'''Tumblr'''.
*'''4Chan'''.
*'''Reddit'''.
*'''YouTube (livestream chats)'''.
*'''Quora'''.
*'''Discord'''.
</div>

Internal discussion, theorizing and organizing takes place within smaller, MAP-facilitated communities such as '''BoyChat, FreeSpeechTube and Virped'''.

'''Other sites have been suggested as present or future interfaces:'''

*'''Twitch''' - the video streaming service, is a strategic frontier due to the left-wing '''"Breadtube"''' e-celebs who use it to bait the alternative right. MAPs may gain access to these leftist/SJW groups by impersonating the alternative-right and/or planting individuals within these communities. Twitch has had many controversies concerning high-profile streamers who have in some way been (usually spuriously or weakly) linked to "pedophilia". Since Breadtube Twitch streamers tend to debate on outlandish and provocative topics, Twitch has been repeatedly touted as a future breeding ground for awareness-raising.

*'''YouTube''' - due to its size, there have been various controversies with users making statements seeming to condone [[minor-adult sex]], and these go back into the 00s (search "dendrophilian", the guy with the dreadlocks in this video<ref>[https://www.freespeechtube.org/v/102s Dendrophilian cut into this video]</ref>). These provocative videos attract a diversity of comments. Depending on Google's take on the culture-war, YouTube will be an important battleground in the decades to come.

In 2022/23, Roisin Michaux (an [[anti]]) began to embed herself with MAPs (including the public section of an online chat funded by [[Newgon]]), and had some success gaining coverage in the New Zealand media.<ref>[https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/02/04/organised-aggrieved-and-determined-to-win/ Organised, Aggrieved and Determined to Win: The pedo underground is real & dangerous]</ref>

==Terminology and symbols==

:''See also: [[Minor attracted neologisms]].''

Terminology tends towards [[Minor Attracted Person|MAP]], [[NOMAP]], [[Adult Attracted Minor|AAM]] and old staples such as [[Boylove]] and [[Girllove]]. Others identify as [[Youthlove]]rs, and many identify with differing terms depending upon the audience (fellow MAPs, vs "Normies"). The commonly accepted symbol is the [[MAP Flag]], initially popularized as the ''NOMAP Flag'' of 2018. Efforts to design such a flag had began in 2008, and older symbols exist, such as the [[BLogo]] and [[GLogo]] - each generating their own controversies. The downward-pointing pink triangle used to identify [[Historical analogies for MAPs and allies|homosexual/pederast men in Nazi concentration camps]] has also been adapted - for example in the NewgonWiki logos past and present. The Mu (μ) symbol has been used on social media in the late 10s and 20s, as has a map emoji.

==Criticism==

:''See also: [[Minor Attracted Person#Popular reception|MAP (main article)]]''

Critics such as [[Kurt Eichenwald]]<ref name=eichenwald/> claim that positions espoused by the movement are encouraging abuse. [[David Finkelhor]] has stated in the past that convicts sometimes use similar arguments to those of the movement. Most criticism in the early second-wave was opportunistic and sensationalistic<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20080308204659/http://education.zdnet.com/?p=424 ZDNet]</ref>, centering on easily caricatured individuals such as [[Jack McClellan]]. This has continued in the social media era, with more of a focus on the terminology used by adjacent non-MAP organizations such as [[Prostasia Foundation]]. The alternative-right and exclusionary radical feminists are particularly active in criticizing the modern movement.<ref>[https://www.newgon.net/wiki/images/PR.pdf Press Release - Newgon]</ref>

==First-wave MAP Movement==

:''In essence, MAPs were a subset of the radical Gay (now referred to as LGBT) movement. For this context, see [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity|historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity]].''

Individuals first known for their association with LGBT-aligned MAP organisations are '''first-wave MAP activists''', and are demographically quite rare nowadays. MAPs have a [[:Category:Organisations: Sympathetic|long history of organizing]], going back to former associations with the Gay Movement; debatably to its very founding. At the time (the 1970s, onwards, with respect to the more visible organizations), they described themselves as Man/Boy Love, pederast or pedophile ([[:File:PIEAOA.png|in reality, predominantly hebephile]]) groups, as the stigma on these terms was considerably less. The LGBT alliances only [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity|broke down in the late 80s and 90s]] for political reasons (gay [[assimilationism]]). For the purpose of activism, those organizations still existing continue to operate as websites and close circles of long-term members only - [[NAMBLA]] being the most high-profile example.<ref name=eichenwald>[https://web.archive.org/web/20220711180523/https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/technology/21pedo.html Eichenwald:] "In this online community, pedophiles view themselves as the vanguard of a nascent movement seeking legalization of child pornography and the loosening of age-of-consent laws. They portray themselves as battling for children's rights to engage in sex with adults, a fight they liken to the civil rights movement... There are also online podcasts, recorded talk shows of 60 to 90 minutes featuring discussions among pedophiles...with topics like 'benefits of age difference in sexual relationships'; 'failure of sex offender registries"; 'children's sexual autonomy, practices and consequences' and 'the misrepresentation of pedophilia in the news media."</ref><ref>Hagan, Domna C. (1988). ''Deviance and the family''. Haworth Press. pp. p131. ISBN 0866567267. "...marginal liberation ideologies promoted by the Sexual Freedom League, Rene Guyon Society, North American Man Boy Love Association, and Pedophile advocacy groups..."</ref><ref>Jenkins, Philip (1992). ''Intimate Enemies: Moral Panics in Contemporary Great Britain.'' Aldine Transaction. pp. p75. ISBN 0202304361. "In the 1970s, the pedophile movement was one of several fringe groups whose cause was to some extent espoused in the name of gay liberation."</ref>

Positions espoused by this movement were similar to the present (pro-destigmatization),<ref>Dr. Frits Bernard,. "The Dutch Paedophile Emancipation Movement". Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia. volume 1 number 2, (Autumn 1987), p. 35-4. "Heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality and paedophilia should be considered equally valuable forms of human behavior."</ref> but with more of an emphasis on the [[pro-c]] reformist aspects.<ref>"The Case for Abolishing the Age of Consent Laws," an editorial from NAMBLA News (1980), reproduced in We Are Everywhere: A Historical Sourcebook of Gay and Lesbian Politics. Ed. by Mark Blasius and Shane Phelan. London: Routledge, 1997. pgs. 459-67.</ref><ref>[https://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/mirkin_text.htm Mirkin] ''"The Pattern of Sexual Politics: Feminism, Homosexuality and Pedophilia"''. J.Homosex. Vol. 37, No. 2 (1999). "When a core of deviant group members begin to identify with each other and reject the dominant culture's assessment of their worth, as some women did in the first and second waves of feminism, as blacks did in the 1950s and 1960s, and as gays and lesbians did in the late 1960s and 1970s, and as some pedophiles are doing now, the claim is made that the dominant categories are incorrect and changeable social creations. ... black theorists argue that black culture and life was largely invisible to both blacks and whites in the pre-civil rights period, feminist theorists claim that male categories marginalized and delegitimatized women, homosexuals were ridiculed and dismissed in the 1950s, and pedophiles are vilified today. ... Though pedophile organizations were originally a part of the gay/lesbian coalition, gay organizations distance themselves from pedophile organizations in the same way as feminist leaders sought to separate themselves from lesbians."</ref> This was in part because of the general climate of sexual liberationism in the post-stonewall era - propagated by [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity|gay liberationists and youth-lib organizations]].

The movement was supported by periodicals such as [[Paidika]]: The Journal of Paedophilia (1987–1995) and through a few membership organizations, which have declined significantly in membership or ceased their activities completely.<ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20050325090306/http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=27 Benoit Denizet-Lewis (2001). "Boy Crazy," Boston Magazine.]</ref>

===Timeline===

*'''Late 1950s and 1960s''' - Dutch psychologist and sexologist [[Frits Bernard]] forms the [[Enclave Kring]] (Enclave Circle) in Den Haag, which takes on a homophile direction, despite his insistence on non-discrimination. Most organization by contemporary MAPs or indeed homosexuals, is by necessity an underground movement.<ref name="bernard">[http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/dutch_movement_text.htm Dr. Frits Bernard] (Autumn 1987). "The Dutch Paedophile Emancipation Movement". Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia. 1 (2): 35–45.</ref>
*'''1970s Holland''' - Activity picks up in the post-Stonewall era of radical gay liberationism, as a public MAP movement becomes active in the Netherlands.<ref>Brongersma, Edward (1988). "Schutzalter 12 Jahre? - Sex mit Kindern in der niederländischen Gesetzgebung ("Age of Consent 12 years? Dutch legislation on sex with children")", in Leopardi, Angelo: Der pädosexuelle Komplex ("On the topic of pedosexuality") (in German). Frankfurt/Main, Germany: Foerster Verlag, 212. ISBN 3-922257-66-6.</ref> Indeed, most organized activity was centered in the Netherlands, and to a lesser degree in The United Kingdom, with the [[Paedophile Information Exchange]].<ref name=best>Best, Joel (2001). ''How Claims Spread: Cross-national Diffusion of Social Problems''. Aldine Transaction. pp. p150-152, pp161-163. ISBN 0202306542.</ref> A small number of Dutch researchers, among them Bernard, social psychologist [[Theo Sandfort]], lawyer and politician [[Edward Brongersma]] and psychiatrist [[Frans Gieles]], wrote papers on the topic, both from theoretical and practical standpoints. Some of the papers discussed the effects of adult-minor sexual interactions. The data for these papers came mainly from analyzing pedophiles/hebephiles, but also from adults and young people who, as children or adolescents, had been involved in sexual relationships with adults. In a 1988 interview,<ref name=Leopardi>Leopardi, Angelo (1988). Leopardi, Angelo (ed.). Der pädosexuelle Komplex ("On the topic of pedosexuality") (in German). Frankfurt/Main, Germany: Foerster Verlag. pp. 297ff. ISBN 3-922257-66-6.</ref> Bernard said he had, as part of his psychological work, and also as an authorized expert witness in a number of court cases, talked to and analyzed "more than a thousand pedophile adults and about three-thousand children and adolescents who had had [sexual] contacts with adults."
:On June 22, 1979, a petition along with a letter with the same content was sent to the Dutch minister of justice and simultaneously was brought before the Dutch parliament, requesting that the age of consent be lowered. The petition was authored by the [[NVSH|Dutch Society for Sexual Reform]] (NVSH) and others. Although it was endorsed by some mainstream Dutch social welfare and public mental health organizations, the executives of the ruling Labour Party and some minority parties, the petition failed.<ref>Brongersma, Edward (1988). "Schutzalter 12 Jahre? - Sex mit Kindern in der niederländischen Gesetzgebung ("Age of Consent 12 years? Dutch legislation on sex with children")". In Leopardi, Angelo (ed.). Der pädosexuelle Komplex ("On the topic of pedosexuality") (in German). Frankfurt/Main, Germany: Foerster Verlag. p. 214. ISBN 3-922257-66-6.</ref> ''The Netherlands Society for Psychiatry'', as Jan Schuijer wrote, was "apparently alarmed by the success of the petition," and publicly opposed the demands for decriminalization claiming it would undermine ''parental authority''!<ref name=Schuijer>Jan Schuijer (1990). "Tolerance at arm's length: The Dutch experience". Journal of Homosexuality. 20: 218.</ref> From 1979 through 1981, the last major success of MAP activism in The Netherlands was achieved when the Dutch Protestant Foundation for Responsible Family Development ([[Protestantse Stichting voor Verantwoorde Gezinsvorming|PSVG]]) sold and distributed tens of thousands of copies of a booklet entitled [[Text of Pedophilia (PSVG)|''Pedophilia'' (originally illustrated with photos)]] in and to Dutch elementary schools.<ref name=BernardPad>Bernard, Frits (1997). Pädophilie ohne Grenzen ("Anti-authoritarian pedophilia") (in German). Frankfurt/Main, Germany: Foerster Verlag. p. 36. ISBN 3-922257-83-6.</ref>
*'''The Anglosphere and a continued MAP/LGBT alliance in the 80s''' - In 1974, the [[Paedophile Information Exchange]] (PIE) was formed in Scotland, later based in London, where its first meeting was met with street riots.<ref name=Schuijer/> In 1978 the North American Man/Boy Love Association ([[NAMBLA]]) was formed by Gay activists in Boston, soon becoming integrated as part of what was at the time an [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity|oddball gay liberationist movement]]. NAMBLA sought to emulate the [[Mattachine Society]], a gay organization, that whilst controversial in its time, had gone on to be remembered as a forerunner.<ref>Jenkins, Philip. Decade of Nightmares: The End of the Sixties and the Making of Eighties America. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2006. pg. 124.</ref> The PIE capitulated to public pressure and disbanded in 1985, however NAMBLA soldiered on; A 2005 newspaper article quoted an undercover police officer who said that in 1995, NAMBLA had about 1,100 members!<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20120122195629/http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050218/news_1n18manboy.html Soto, ''"FBI Targets Pedophilia Advocates"'', San Diego Union-Tribune, Feb. 18, 2005.]</ref>

:In the 1980s, a number of pedophile and pederast advocacy groups formed including [[Vereniging MARTIJN]] (1982), situated in the Netherlands, and the [[Danish Pedophile Association]] ('''DPA''', in 1985). This was followed in the early 1990s by the formation of [[Ipce]], an umbrella organization for activist groups. Although MARTIJN and Ipce continued to function until the 10s, DPA disbanded in early 2004. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the movement faced headwinds in Europe and the UK due to a combination of events including the rise of the conservative political right, scare stories, [[moral panic]]s and the rise of second-wave feminism. [[Child sexual abuse]] came into being as a discourse during this period, resulting in greater public vigilance and a decreased tolerance for [[child pornography|child erotica]].<ref name=best /> The membership of the NVSH drastically decreased to below 10,000 (at times it had had up to 240,000 members) yielding a serious financial crisis.<ref name=BernardPad/> Bernard (born in 1920) retired from his occupation as a psychologist, as an expert witness, and from all of his offices in international organizations in 1985.<ref name=Leopardi/> He did, however make an appearance two years later as a guest on the Phil Donahue show, accompanied by a 23-year-old male who had been involved in a sexual relationship with an adult as a minor.<ref name=Leopardi/>

*'''Late 80s and early 90s - American Influence and the new, bourgeoise gays.''' Meanwhile, European and British law enforcement's efforts to combat child pornography and sexual contact with minors became more aggressive, and the number of convictions and incarcerated sex offenders increased.<ref name=best /> In the Netherlands, emerging feminist and victim organizations as well as juvenile police units still supported decriminalization as of 1982.<ref name=Schuijer/> However, Dutch police and law officials were increasingly educated by the FBI on "FBI methods of tracking down the makers and collectors of child pornography" (virtually and effectively "guidelines [that] target those who engage in sexual contacts with underage minors").<ref name=Schuijer/> In 1989, Dutch minister of justice Korthals Althes publicly stated that weekly meetings on these matters with the FBI and British government were established in 1985.<ref name=BernardPad/> The famously imprudent P.I.E was targeted by the Scotland Yard Paedophile Unit, and notable members, including founders of P.I.E. were consequently convicted of sex offenses, including [[Geoffrey Prime]] and [[David Joy]]. After the International Lesbian and Gay Association was granted consultative member status within the United Nations Economic and Social Council in 1994, the United States publicly threatened to cancel its annual financial contributions of US$1 Million to the UN because ILGA had four pronouncedly "pedophile" activist member groups: NAMBLA, MARTIJN, US-based Project TRUTH, and German Verein für Sexuelle Gleichberechtigung (VSG, "Association for Sexual Equality"). As a result, the UN status of ILGA was suspended and ILGA expelled all four organizations. The German Bundesverband Homosexualität (BVH, "National Homosexuality Association") called for international protests on ILGA for expelling these groups, in spite of the fact that BVH never before had been observed as sympathizing with MAPs.<ref>[https://www.newgon.net/prd/hist/ILGAexp/index.html PRD: ILGA Expulsion]</ref><ref name=BernardPad/>

===1st wave organizations (all defunct or largely inactive)===

Of these organizations, only NAMBLA, Ipce and Krumme 13 are known to carry on some online publishing activity, although as public activist organizations, all bar K-13 (which still organizes protests) remain dormant to our knowledge.

====International====
* ''[[Ipce]]'' (inactive, but still running a website). It was founded in the late 80s. As of 2005, it had 79 members in 20 countries.<ref name="donnell-milner">O'Donnell, Ian; Milner, Claire (2012). Child Pornography: Crime, Computers and Society. Routledge. pp. 11–15. ISBN 9781135846350.</ref><ref>[https://books.google.com/books?id=09ZXAAAAYAAJ Whitfield, Charles L.; Silberg, Joyanna L.]; Fink, Paul Jay (2001). Misinformation Concerning Child Sexual Abuse and Adult Survivors. Haworth Maltreatment & Trauma Press. p. 129. ISBN 9780789019004.</ref> They last met in 2010 on the Dutch coast, alongside an [[IBLD]] meeting.

====Australia====
* ''Australasian Man/Boy Love Association'' (AMBLA). An associate of Ipce.<ref name=ausparliament/>
* ''[[Australian Paedophile Support Group]]'' (APSG). Founded in 1980 or 1983. Its membership was very small. It was disbanded due to police activity and succeeded by the ''Boy Lovers and Zucchini Eaters'' (BLAZE). This group was also dismantled by police.<ref name=ausparliament>[https://web.archive.org/web/20191118044800/https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Former_Committees/acc/completed_inquiries/pre1996/ncapedo/report/c03 Organised Criminal Paedophile Activity], Parliamentary Joint Committee on the National Crime, Australian Parliament, 1995.</ref>

====Belgium====
* ''Dokumentatiedienst Pedofilie''.<ref name="pimo"/>
* ''Centre de recherche et d'information sur l'enfance et la sexualité'', Founded in 1986 by Philippe Charpentier. The group published the magazine ''[[L'Espoir]]''.<ref>"Les réseaux pédo-criminels en Belgique avant l'affaire Dutroux" (in French), Françoise van de Moortel.</ref>
* ''Fach Und Selbsthilfegruppe Paedophilie''. Founded in the early 1970s.<ref name="pimo"/>
* ''Stiekum''.<ref name="pimo"/>
* ''Studiegroep Pedofilie''.<ref name="pimo"/>.

====Canada====
* ''Coalition Pédophile Québécois''. Associated with Ipce.<ref name="donnell-milner" />
* ''Fondation Nouvelle''.<ref name="donnell-milner" />

====Denmark====
* ''[[Danish Pedophile Association]]'' (DPA), 1985–2004.<ref name="donnell-milner"/><ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20130801073303/http://www.ecpat.nl/images/13/1216.pdf Save The Children,] ''Sex offenders without Borders''</ref>

====France====
* ''Groupe de Recherche pour une Enfance Différente'' (GRED), 1979–1987. The group published the bulletin ''[[Le Petit Gredin]]'' (''The Little Rogue'').<ref name="pimo">Pablo Santiago (2004, Chapter: Colectivos a favor de la pedofilia) in ''Alicia en el lado oscuro'' (Esp), pages 387–391, isbn=84-95882-46-9</ref>

====Germany====

* ''[[AG-Pädo]]''. Founded in 1991 by the association ''Arbeitsgruppe des Bundesverbandes Homosexualität''.<ref name="fonseca">[https://web.archive.org/web/20130921060045/http://fdc.br/Arquivos/Mestrado/Revistas/Revista10/Discente/SuheylaFonseca.pdf Fonseca, Suheyla.] "Um olhar crítico sobre o ativismo pedófilo" (in Portuguese). ''Revista da Faculdade de Direito de Campos'', number 10 (June 2007).</ref><ref>Bundschuh, Claudia: ''Pädosexualität'' (in German). Opladen: Leske + Budrich, 2001. ISBN 3-8100-2930-0</ref>
* ''Aktion Freis Leben'' (AFL).<ref name="fonseca"/>
* ''Arbeitskreis Päderastie-Pädophilie'' (APF). Active in the early 1980s.<ref name="pimo"/>
* ''Arbeitsgemeinschaft Humane Sexualität'' (AHS).
* ''Arbeitsgemeinschaft "Schwule, Päderasten und Transsexuelle"'' ("Working Group 'Gays, [[Pederast]]s and Transsexuals'"). A 1980s faction of the [[German Green Party]].<ref>[http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/past-pedophile-links-haunt-german-green-party-a-899544.html Shadows from the Past: Pedophile Links Haunt Green Party]</ref>
* ''Deutsche Studien- und Arbeitsgemeinschaft Pädophilie'' (DSAP). 1979–1983.<ref name="fonseca"/>
* ''Fach und Selbsthilfegruppe Paedophilie''.<ref name="fonseca"/>
* ''[[Indianerkommune]]''. Active from the 1970s through the mid-1980s.<ref name="pimo"/> Commune that pressured the Green Party, sometimes violently.<ref>[http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/tid-32917/report-das-boese-kapitel-der-gruenen_aid_1068140.html Das böse Kapitel der Grünen]</ref>
* ''Kanalratten''. Offshoot of the ''Indianerkommune'' but for females.<ref>[https://books.google.com/books?id=1yjQnzBExAoC&pg=PA40 Sexuelle Grenzverletzungen im Lehrer-Schüler-Verhältnis an staatlichen Schulen]</ref>
* ''[[Krumme13]]'' (K13).<ref>''Spiegel:'' Unter der Gürtellinie</ref><ref>[https://www.welt.de/print-welt/article375870/Paedophile_wollen_mit_Vereinsgruendung_noch_warten.html Pädophile wollen mit Vereinsgründung noch warten]</ref>
* ''Pädogruppe, Rat und Tat-Zentrum''.<ref name="fonseca"/>
* ''Pädophile Selbsthilfe- und Emanzipationsgruppe München'' (SHG).<ref>[http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/kindsmissbrauch-zweieinhalb-jahre-haft-fuer-paedophilen-lehrer-1.747058 Zweieinhalb Jahre Haft für pädophilen Lehrer]</ref> Starting in 2003, police began raiding its members, resulting in more than half a million items of child pornography seized and multiple arrests.<ref>[http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/urteil-im-paedophilen-prozess-kinderpornos-gespeichert-1.757579 500.000 Kinderpornos gespeichert]</ref>
* ''Verein für sexuelle Gleichberechtigung''. Founded in Munich. 1973–1988.<ref>Frauenbewegungen in der Welt: Westeuropa (1988, in German) isbn 978-3886191505</ref>

====Italy====
* ''[[Gruppo P]].'' Founded by Francesco Vallini, who was a journalist at the gay magazine ''Babilonia''. He and ten others associated with Gruppo P were arrested in 1993. At the time, the magazine's editorial staff defended him. The group published the bulletin ''Corriere del pedofili''.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20130927185909/http://archiviostorico.corriere.it/1993/luglio/15/gruppo_reclutava_bambini_co_0_9307151114.shtml "Il " gruppo P " reclutava i bambini"] (in Italian). ''Corriere della Sera'', 15-7-1993.</ref>

====Netherlands====

:''While not strictly a MAP activist organization, see also [[PNVD]].''

* ''Jon''. Founded in 1979 by the [[Dutch Society for Sexual Reform]].<ref name="fonseca"/>
* ''[[Vereniging MARTIJN]]''. Founded in 1982. On 27 June 2012 a Dutch court ruled that the group was illegal and ordered it to disband immediately.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20130424191354/http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2686/Binnenland/article/detail/3277772/2012/06/27/Rechter-verbiedt-pedoclub-Martijn.dhtml Rechter verbiedt pedoclub Martijn] (in Dutch). Volkskrant.nl, 2012-6-27.</ref> However this decision was overturned by a higher court in April 2013. The judge motivated their decision by stating that the association did not commit crimes and had the right of freedom of association.<ref>"[http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/04/02/pedovereniging-martijn-mag-blijven-bestaan-hof-verwerpt-verbod/ Pedofielenvereniging Martijn mag blijven bestaan, hof verwerpt verbod] (in Dutch). Nrc.nl, 2013-04-02.</ref> This was itself overturned by the Dutch Supreme Court on 18 April 2014, reinstating the trial judge's order and banning the organization for trivializing and glorifying pedophilic acts.<ref>[http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2014/04/18/hoge-raad-vereniging-martijn-wordt-verboden-en-ontbonden/ Hoge Raad: vereniging Martijn definitief verboden en ontbonden]</ref> The association filed an appeal at the European Court of Human Rights but it was rejected.<ref name=nltimes>[http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/02/03/pro-pedophile-association-loses-eu-court-bid/ Pro-pedophile association loses EU court bid]</ref> The group published ''[[OK Magazine]]''.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20141028112551/http://www.nieuwsblad.be/Article/Detail.aspx?ref=hv&articleID=G3LEB5K9|archivedate=28 Subscription magazine for pedophiles]</ref>

====Norway====
* ''Norwegian Pedophile Group'' (Pedofil Arbeidsgruppe i Norge).<ref name=example>[https://books.google.com/books?id=LI3FBQAAQBAJ&pg=PT38 The Sexual Abuse of Children:] Volume I: Theory and Research (pages=38–39)</ref><ref>[https://www.pedofili.eu/Bulletin.htm Pedofili EU: Norweigan Pedophile Workgroup's Magazine]</ref>
* ''Amnesty for Child Sexuality''.<ref name=example />

====Spain====
* ''Lolita Club''. Bernard states: ''"There did evolve, remarkably enough in Spain, the Lolita Club, a small club in which a number of heterosexual paedophiles had united. The members corresponded anonymously with each other and exchanged non-pornographic photographs through the mail. This organization dissolved without a trace. Nothing more was heard about the founder, a businessman from Barcelona. What exactly happened will most likely never come to light."''<ref name="bernard"/>

====Switzerland====
* ''Schweizerische Arbeitsgemeinschaft Pädophile''.<ref name="pimo" />

====United Kingdom====
* ''Paedophile Action for Liberation'', formed in 1974, merged with PIE in 1975.<ref name="pimo"/>
* ''[[Paedophile Information Exchange]]'' (PIE), 1974–1984.<ref>Tom de Castella & Tom Heyden [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26352378 "How did the pro-paedophile group PIE exist openly for 10 years?"], BBC News Magazine, 27 February 2014</ref>

====United States====
* ''[[Childhood Sensuality Circle]]'' (CSC). Founded in 1971 in San Diego, California, by a student of [[Wilhelm Reich]].<ref name="example"/> Defunct by the mid-1980s.<ref name=donnell-milner/><ref>[https://seksualpolitikk.wordpress.com/ CSC Journal Scans]</ref>
* ''[[NAMBLA|North American Man/Boy Love Association]]'' (NAMBLA). 1978–present (dormant, website).<ref>[https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/whatever-happened-to-nambla Whatever Happened to NAMBLA, America's Paedophilia Advocates?]</ref>
* ''Project Truth.'' One of the organizations which was expelled from [[ILGA]] in 1994 for being a pedophile organization.<ref>[https://books.google.com/books?id=suPZAAAAMAAJ Finding Out:] An Introduction to LGBT Studies (2009), ISBN 9781412938648, p 162.</ref>
* ''[[René Guyon Society]].'' Most investigators considered it a one-man propaganda operation (see [["Pedophile Activism" hoaxes]]).<ref name=ausparliament/> Its slogan was said to be "sex before eight, or else it's too late."<ref name=ausparliament/><ref name=example /> Defunct by the mid-1980s.<ref name=donnell-milner/>

==External links==

*[https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Online_pedophile_activism RationalWiki: Online Pedophile Activism] - Unusual take, includes some curious examples.
*[https://www.boywiki.org/en/Draft/Pro-pedo_activism_(from_an_early_Wikipedia_article) BoyWiki copy] of a very old Wikipedia article that was erased.

==References==

[[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Censorship]][[Category:Gay]][[Category:Cyber Activism]][[Category:Youth]][[Category:Terminology]][[Category:Terminology: MAP]][[Category:Terminology: Popular]][[Category:History & Events]][[Category:History & Events: British]][[Category:History & Events: American]][[Category:History & Events: Australian]][[Category:History & Events: French]][[Category:History & Events: Dutch]][[Category:History & Events: Danish]][[Category:History & Events: Australian]][[Category:History & Events: International]][[Category:History & Events: 1970s]][[Category:History & Events: 1990s]][[Category:History & Events: 1980s]][[Category:History & Events: 2000s]][[Category:History & Events: 2010s]][[Category:History & Events: 2020s]]

Talk:MAP Movement

2024-02-18T20:52:40Z

JohnHolt: Created page with "==BoyWiki/Wikipedia article== [https://www.boywiki.org/en/Draft/Pro-pedo_activism_(from_an_early_Wikipedia_article)]"

==BoyWiki/Wikipedia article==

[https://www.boywiki.org/en/Draft/Pro-pedo_activism_(from_an_early_Wikipedia_article)]

User talk:Prue

2024-02-18T20:41:13Z

JohnHolt: /* Peter Melzer */

==Hi==

Thanks for submitting the sources to the new article on the lGBT movement. Here is a template for citations:

<nowiki><ref>[https://example.com/example Citation or rough name]</ref></nowiki>

For no Link:

<nowiki><ref>Citation</ref></nowiki>

--[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 08:43, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

==I have created two articles==

With topical information you submitted to [[Censorship]]:

*[[David Sonenschein]] - COMPLETE.
*[[Ernest Borneman]]

In time, these will be developed, but this might be a good point to look at the foundational basis of a working article. We templated one a while back:

[https://www.newgon.net/wiki/index.php?title=NewgonWiki:Article_template_for_a_stub&action=edit copy the wikitext and paste into the articles, then knock out the categories and sections you don't need and work the content]. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 09:33, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

==Thank You==

Hi there. As you can see I'm still slowly slowly learning by doing, making contributions here and there to try and get a handle on how editing and creating pages works. Apologies for my sloppiness... And thank you for making separate pages for Borneman and Sonenschein; I put way too much info but I'm not too sure on how to create a page as opposed to just editing an already made one. I'll practice making a page in the near future, as I'm thinking of creating a page "bias in research" where I'll summarize the few explicit analysis of research bias by Bruce Rind and Alayne Yates, respectively. And prob discuss Paul Okami and Joel Best's discussions of victimological [non-scientific] terminology being used in research. Also, if you've not seen these pages yet I wonder if they'd be good to archive https://famouspedophiles.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/notables-figures-living-or-dead-who-evinced-an-attraction-to-people-under-16-with-a-focus-on-under-13/ and https://famouspedophiles.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/famous-pedophiles/
:Hey, yes, Famous Peds is a project that falls under our mirror project (i.e. it contains plenty of material we can duplicate if it is carefully vetted and integrated into our article/category structure). I'd like to end up with plenty of medium-size, easy to mainatin historical articles based on that site. BoyWiki also has some similar information, but they also have a lot of texts and deep archives - the kind of thing we read and summarize when relevant, but don't engage in ourselves unless we have exclusive access to a text, and that is rare.
:I have just created an article on [[Philip Tromovitch|Tromovitch]] to show you how a basic stub article works, although you are welcome to include more information about your subjects if it is less well circulated elsewhere. So if we have an article on a popular current/evolving subject, we tend to just keep a stub that links out, so it doesn't need updating. We link out to resources that are updated - i.e. Wikipedia. If it's a common but relevant topic like Michael Jackson for example, we would carry information that is less widely circulated, and link out for everything else.
:When you create an article, to begin with, you should just be more inclusive. I'll then come in and delete excessive categories etc, or suggest alternative locations for other information.
:What you propose sounds like a research review list for "problems in research". This was suggested by Jillium (?), so feel free to copy the format and start building it (first of all, without linking it to the research project). We are working on the summarization of Janssen - a similar kind of thing, but more long term in its scope. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 04:56, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

==Bias in research==
I saw this request and modified an existing article to accommodate any excerpts you might have on these topics:

[[Research: Methodological flaws and syndrome construction]] --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 00:04, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

:For a list of things not yet integrated to articles: [https://www.newgon.net/wiki/Talk:Research] --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 07:20, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Lets work on it here==

Testimonies now integrated in format.

Let's use this page as the sandbox for a new article.

The article you have quoted seems to have ample material for an new article on Korephilia, Lesbian Intergenerational relationships or something like that. This would have to be a new article. Alternatively, a book stub with a review or excerpts annexed could be an acceptable format. let me know and i'll look at creating something. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 06:37, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

===The content===

* '''Littauer, Amanda. (2020) [https://doi.org/10.3167/hrrh.2020.460107 Queer Girls and Intergenerational Lesbian Sexuality in the 1970s], in ''Historical Reflections'', 46:1, 95-108'''

*: '''Abstract''': "Drawing on letters and writings by teenage girls and oral history interviews, this article aims to open a scholarly conversation about the existence and significance of intergenerational sexual relationships between minor girls and adult women in the years leading up to and encompassing the lesbian feminist movement of the 1970s. Lesbian history and culture say very little about sexual connections between youth and adults, sweeping them under the rug in gender-inflected ways that differ from the suppression of speech in gay male history and culture about intergenerational sex between boys and men. Nonetheless, my research suggests that, despite lesbian feminists’ caution and even negativity toward teen girls, erotic and sexual relationships with adult women provided girls access to support, pleasure, mentorship, and community."

*: Newgon: Except ''[[Paidika]]'''s special issue dedicated to female sexuality and the non-specialist Youthlove Anthology "''[https://archive.org/details/kidsclub-shesaid She Said - Women, Lesbians and Feminists Speak about Youthlove]''", this article represents one of the few discussions of "Queer" (non-normative) intergenerational lesbianism. Because the article represents a seminal contribution drawing on archival material which has never been publicized before, we have included longer quotations as a separate page here '''[if someone could create this, link the page and simply paste the following quotations that would be amazing 'cause idk how / I'll take forever.''', and focused on testimonies in what follows here.

['''Quotes for separate article''' - I've given some titles in bold to separate info and signpost the reader]:

'''The Conspiracy of Silence on Intergenerational Lesbianism'''

"Across the [feminist] ideological spectrum, there was strong opposition to the sexual objectification of women and attentiveness to the ways that power relations shaped sexual dynamics. The feminist politicization of sexuality sometimes led lesbian feminists to downplay butch masculinity and to deemphasize lesbian sexual desire and practice. It should not be surprising, then, that explicit discussion of age-differentiated sexual relationships between women and girls felt risky and unwelcome in lesbian feminist communities" (p. 96)

"Historians have speculated that reasons for this absence in the literature likely include the lasting impact of the myth of homosexual pedophilia; the exclusion of legal minors from LGBT commercial, cultural, and social spaces; and the politics of gay and lesbian respectability in the marriage equality era" (p. 96).

"Many teen girls in the mid-to late twentieth century [...] initiated sexual and romantic relationships with self-identified lesbians who were part of lesbian networks. Unlike in gay male subcultures, however, lesbian and lesbian feminist communities usually stigmatized relationships between adult lesbians and adolescents, who were seen as placing adults at risk of persecution and even legal prosecution for “contributing to the delinquency of a minor.” In their search for connection and belonging, teen girls who initiated romantic and sexual relationships with adult lesbians risked rejection and further alienation" (pp. 100-101).

"In ''Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold'', Elizabeth Kennedy and Madeline Davis [..] mention the phenomenon of older femmes taking young butches under their wings, both socially and sexually. Lesbians (and gay men) in the postwar years often used the language of “bringing out” to describe a more experienced queer person’s introduction of same-sex sexual practice to a less experienced person" (p. 102).

'''Littauer's Approach'''

"I take a social-historical approach that centers the voices of girls, whom I define according to gender self-identification and legal minor designation (i.e., under the age of eighteen or twenty-one, depending on the jurisdiction). I ask what girls and women have said and written about their romantic and erotic feelings for, and consensual sexual relationships with, adult women and what themes or categories we might use to begin to understand what those connections meant and how they shaped the lives and subjectivities of queer girls." (pp. 96-97)

"Based on preliminary research, I argue that girls in age-differentiated sexual relationships with adult women sought affective experiences of pleasure, belonging, and safety, and in many cases also sociosexual mentorship and access to resources, independence, and community. Their ability to achieve these outcomes depended largely on forces and dynamics beyond their control, including adult lesbians’ preference for keeping youth at a distance." (p. 97)

'''Queer Girls Have Always Been There, You Just Didn't Notice'''

"Stories of girls developing “crushes” on adult women are ubiquitous in oral histories, autobiographies, and fiction. Gym teachers, school teachers, scout leaders, camp counselors, and nuns appear over and over again as the objects of girls’ affections and obsessions, which were often romantic and sometimes sexual in nature. Sources from the 1970s suggest marked continuity from earlier decades in the affective experience of “schoolgirl crushes” as well as in the function of such recollections in “coming out” narratives that sought to document, track, and consolidate the emergence of lesbian identity." (p. 97)

"In the 1970s, nationally known lesbian authors such as Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon joined teachers and others in the group of adult potential objects of adolescent girls’ fantasies and desires. Founding the nation’s first lesbian homophile organization, the Daughters of Bilitis, in the 1950s, Martin and Lyon published Lesbian/Woman in 1972 and devoted several pages to the problems facing lesbian teens. Girls from around the country got hold of the book and wrote to the authors, seeking advice and attention. In April of 1976, for instance, a seventeen-year-old named Paulette wrote from Zolfo Springs, Florida. Paulette mentioned early in her letter that she would turn eighteen on 28 June. She wrote: “I know my age is very young, it is a label, I am somewhat more mature in ways than that of my age.” She then raved about the book in emotional and erotic language:

[indented] I have your book in my lap right now and I am looking at the cover and
just by looking at this cover just goes to show you can’t tell a book by it’s
[sic] cover . . . it’s what’s inside that counts, and ''boy'' does this book have
something inside!!! I wish I could give some of this back to you, (this - the
overwhelming feeling I get, wow! it will turn you around. Really it’s a pocketful full of energy, excitement so much, listen it’s beyond words, what can I say I could go on and on and never really define what I feel exactly, ecstatic, turned on tremendously!) I really like you both very much, I like your hearts, I like ''you''. Please write, I hope you do soon. Love be with you, with my love and happiness to you, Paulette.

"Many girls in the mid-to late twentieth century acted on their feelings for adult women and entered into romantic and sexual relationships, usually in their own neighborhoods and communities. A range of sources speak to girls’ experiences in sexual relationships with adult women, who were often married with children and who did not typically identify as lesbians or engage in lesbian subcultures. For teen girls, these relationships served a range of purposes and met a variety of needs, including the opportunity to recognize or validate their romantic and/or sexual desire for women and to enjoy physical and emotional pleasure, connection, and satisfaction. Letters from adolescent girls seeking advice about their sexual relationships with older women in the 1970s suggest, however, that the interpersonal dynamics of age-differentiated couples could be quite complex and challenging, particularly in the absence of community support." (p. 98)

"Another letter speaks to the theme of relationships with older women introducing a mix of insecurity and support. An eighteen-year-old from Daytona, Florida, wrote that after two suicide attempts and a brief stay in a psychiatric ward—she pointed out that it was brief only because she knew better than to admit that she was gay—she went to live with an older, married woman and mother of two who was studying to become a psychologist. Talking openly about her feelings helped her tremendously, she explained. She fell in love with the older woman but kept her feelings to herself and was therefore quite surprised to find that her feelings were reciprocated. The two had an affair that lasted for a few months and that the letter writer described as “beautiful,” but after it ended, loneliness and suicidal thoughts were again taking hold and the letter writer begged Martin and Lyon to help her find other lesbians so that she would have a reason to keep going. She promised to wait for their reply before “doing anything stupid.” The file includes a copy of Lyon and Martin’s reply, in which they gave information about a local chapter of the National Organization for Women known to have several lesbian members and a chapter of the Daughters of Bilitis that was somewhat further away. They urged her to get rid of her gun and to use their help to secure support in finding her way as a lesbian in the world, as so many others had." (pp. 99-100).

'''Stigma and Secondary Harm Endured by Queer Girls'''

"An eighteen-year-old from Denton, Texas, wrote that the age difference between her and her thirty-six-year-old lover, Barbara, sometimes left Barbara feeling “guilty” and worried. She asked:

[indented] Do you know of any couples (homosexual) with a very large difference in ages that have had a long life together? I wish that you could let us know if you do — it would do nice to give Barbara a little extra encouragement. She worries about me more than she does herself and she is afraid something will happen to me because of our love. I hope I don’t take too much of your time, but you are about the only ones I really have to talk to about Barbara and me. It’s really great telling someone how much I love her — cause I do love her an awful lot.

Despite the stress created by their eighteen-year gap in age, the letter writer relished the opportunity to name the love that the two women shared. She also mentioned that she and Barbara were looking to rent a house together, which raises the point that intergenerational relationships created not only emotional and sexual possibilities, but also material opportunities for teen girls." (p. 100).

"In the early 1970s, the two founders and editors of the literary arts journal for lesbians, ''Amazon Quarterly'', traveled across North America to interview subscribers and published excerpts of the interviews in a book called ''The New Lesbians'' [Laurel Galana and Gina Covina, ''The New Lesbians: Interviews with Women Across the U.S. and Canada'' (Berkeley, CA: Moon Books, 1977) - Newgon]. The book offered a lesbian feminist framework that explicitly countered dominant messages about lesbians’ family histories, psychological stability, reliance on gendered “roles,” sex lives, and general health and well-being.

Within this collection is the story of Sylvia, a novelist and “university teacher” in her “early forties” living in British Columbia with her long-term partner, Margaret. Sylvia remembered being attracted to girls by the age of thirteen and recognizing the feelings as sexual at fifteen, when she became involved with a thirty-five-year-old woman who was married with young children. When an interviewer asked how Sylvia felt about the relationship, Sylvia responded: “Just marvelous, I was just awestruck, it was the most marvelous thing to discover and it was an odd relationship.” She continued: “I suppose I really joined the family, there was no hassle, her husband knew what the relationship was and it didn’t bother him.” In fact, she explained, she was “devoted to him, too,” to the point that when Sylvia was staying with the family to help with the children during their mother’s illness, Sylvia became “sexually involved” with her lover’s husband, because “it just seemed the right sort of comforting thing to do.” The interviewer asked if Sylvia felt the need to tell other people in order to gain support, and Sylvia answered “no”; she “had a feeling of secrecy” to protect the relationship, because it was “so absolutely acceptable to all of us” but would almost certainly baffle her parents and grandmother." (pp. 100-101).

"although legal prosecution of women over twenty-one for having sex with legal minors “rarely occurs,” the possibility did exist and that parents of youth sometimes threatened legal action. The mother of Teresa, one of [Susan] Cahn’s white narrators, “said she was going to call the cops and throw my lover in jail,” which ended the relationship. As a result, some adults insisted on keeping their relationships with minors completely secret, which, as Cahn pointed out, “puts a great deal of added pressure on both partners.” Cahn added that older partners sometimes treated younger lovers in “ageist” ways, criticizing them for their lack of experience or expressing frustration that they could not get into bars easily or at all" (p. 104).

Angelica, who was nineteen, felt that she was the one who “set up” the mother–child dynamic in her relationship at sixteen with a woman who was thirty. “I would keep using my age as an excuse” for not knowing things, “setting myself up as a baby needing to be mothered.” In a different relationship, however, the dynamic was reversed, and her older lover resisted other lesbians’ assumptions about the burden of dating someone so young. “I remember how if we would be in the bar and other women would come up and talk about how she’s a chicken hawk . . . and what’s she doing with a baby dyke and don’t you have to teach her everything. . . . She would say, ‘I don’t have to teach her anything. She’s teaching it all to me.’” Angelica’s account reveals the multiple possibilities for age-differentiated relationships, whose internal dynamics were often more subtle or complex than the stereotypes would suggest." (p. 105).

"A few of [Susan] Cahn’s interviewees reflected on the reasons why adult lesbian feminists tended to stigmatize relationships with girls and young women under twenty-one, including internalized homophobia. The myth of pedophilia inaccurately stigmatized gay and lesbian people as child molesters seeking to “recruit” youth into homosexuality and clearly got into the heads of lesbians. Elliot, a seventeen-year-old white lesbian, told Cahn that “I’ve had a couple people just freak out” when they found out her age. “Just feeling like they robbed the cradle. . . . It’s like they can be relating to me just fine. But once they find out I’m 17, these huge stereotypes just come down." (pp. 105-106).

"The sting of adult lesbians’ sexual rejection was especially frustrating to young lesbian feminists who embraced the movement’s political analysis of power and oppression. Like the young lesbian subjects about whom I write in “Your Young Lesbian Sisters,” Cahn’s interviewees understood ageism as limiting girls’ access to resources, community, and their own potential. They
saw it as an oppressive structural force that intersected with sexism and homophobia, and sometimes also racism. For Kim, a black sixteen-year-old, the lesbian community “has showed me what I could have, if I was the right age and the right color and looked right. . . . It’s offered me some things; a sense that there are women here, that there are lesbians here. Whether they’re ''here'' for you is another thing.” Older white lesbians’ attitudes toward Kim’s blackness and youth left Kim feeling alone, even in the midst of lesbian community." (p. 106).

"Emily, one of Cahn’s white interviewees, explained that her current lover, who at thirty was ten years older than herself, “has the old image of the lecherous old woman who seduces the young woman into lesbianism.” Liz also explored the fears driving women’s reluctance to see young lesbians as potential sexual partners: “I think that some people are threatened . . . I know there’s that issue in women’s heads about statutory rape or something . . . and being cradle robbers and all that kind of stuff . . . Maybe they thought I was a little naïve or something, and I’d take chances to do this and that . . . violating them or something.” In Liz’s view, women interested in teen girls feared their own negative views of themselves and perhaps of one another" (p. 106).

'''The Verdict'''

Despite the need for considerable additional research on the subject, it appears that there was
a marked contrast in the ways that gay male and lesbian subcultures regarded sex between adults and minors. Postwar lesbian and 1970s lesbian feminist cultures seem to have discouraged the eroticization of youth and sex between adults and minors, emphasizing the significance of age-based differences in maturity and perspective to a point that young lesbians often found patronizing and disrespectful. Nonetheless, girls experienced feelings of romance and desire toward adult women that they identified as meaningful, and they entered into consensual sexual relationships with older women through which they accessed pleasure, self-understanding, and resources of various kinds. Sexual intimacy with self-identified lesbians who were part of lesbian communities provided even greater benefits, such as sexual and social mentorship and introduction to subcultural networks and shared vocabularies. Intergenerational eroticism was a factor in the lives of teen girls who, whether they lived in Denton, Texas, or Philadelphia, sought out connections to adult women through erotic letters to authors, relationships with neighboring housewives, and sexual instruction from a lesbian couple providing a place to crash on nights away from home. It is time to take the sexual agency of queer youth seriously, which means that many of us have a great deal more research to do." (pp. 106-107).

==New Articles==

As well as the articles on Borneman and the above idea on intergenerational lesbianism, we can probably look at creating a special article for 20th Century pederasty before Stonewall, if you wish to keep reading on this topic. This can take in some of the material in the LGBT-MAP article, allowing it to be more summary in its treatment. Let me know which of these ideas you will like to develop/will be adding to, and I will create the relevant article. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 22:38, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

:Hey. I don't think I'm well-read enough on pre-stonewall 20th century pederasty. I can name-drop famous figures / groups - Oscar Wilde, Andre Gide, John Addington Symonds and the Uranians - but that's about it. My knowledge on each of them is not very deep. People who are more into classic BL literature, well-versed on pederasty would be better. I wonder if the scholar who runs the Greek Love website would want to write something? I don't know them personally, but I've been told by ppl who know them that they're very supportive.

:I think it'd be great to have a separate article dedicated to intergen lesbianism. Littauer provides a good basis, supplemented by people like Pat Califa: "I know very few lesbians, and even fewer gay men, who waited until they were eighteen to come out. Most of us were aware well before puberty that we wanted to be close to or sexual with members of our own sex. I've heard countless stories from women about their attempts to seduce their high school gym teachers or camp counselors. Not all of these attempts were unsuccessful." https://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/califa_feminism.htm

:These 2 poss relevant articles I have saved I need to read-through, esp. the 2nd one:

:Martha Vicinus, ‘Distance and Desire: English Boarding-School Friendships’, in The Lesbian Issue: Essays from Signs (Chicago: Chicago University Press, 1985) <https://www.jstor.org/stable/3173613>. Judith Gay, "Mummies and Babies" and Friends and Lovers in Lesotho’, in Journal of Homosexuality, 11:3-4 (1986), 97-116 <https://doi.org/10.1300/J082v11n03_07>

:So yes let's go with intergen lesbianism and I'll try and summarize points by Littauer rather than block quoting her. Also, I'm gonna quickly add citations for the Feminism page. This article could be relevant to both pages, and I need to skim that too: Margaret A. Simons, ‘Lesbian Connections: Simone de Beauvoir and Feminism', in Signs, 18:1 (Autumn, 1992), 136-161 <https://www.jstor.org/stable/3174730> Beauvoir signed the famous french petition with Foucault et al. about abolishing AOC laws.

::Cool, I mentioned the other topic, because the information you have added to the LGBT-MAP article is reaching critical mass for forking, and could be summarized within the article itself. If more information is found, we will probably have to create a new article and manage it that way. I'll make [[Intergenerational Lesbianism]]. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 22:48, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

==Rotherham Report/Rochdale, etc==

Just did a short media review at [[Research: Commercial and online sexual exploitation]]. Wondering if the topic interests you? I'd like to see somebody go over the report and tease out what was really going on. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 16:39, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

==Alinka Gearon Paper==

I made some modifications to our citation of this paper after an author's request. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 23:08, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

===Copy of present text===

I have had to read parts of the paper due to complaints made by the author, and produced the following summary, also detaching the citation from most of the claims made. It seems to also bend to some of the theoretical aspects of her work, as well as our interpretation of the substantive aspects:

:''Others have focused on "trafficked children" ultimately ''detected'' by the system (charities and protective services). By virtue of the fact that the subjects of these studies are nearly always referred following complaints (either by the subjects themselves or an outside party) they will typically be victims of multiple forms of abuse. Nevertheless, in-depth case-studies reveal that the image of the "coercively trafficked" child is an inaccurate trope - one that is abused for political gain. For example, even when they had no economic power to escape the situation (they complied because of false promises of work, etc) minors used their own mental resources to protect themselves and ultimately to identify themselves as victims. Criminalization of minors is also pointed to as a source of harm.<ref>Gearon, A. (2019) [https://doi.org/10.1093/bjc/azy042 Child Trafficking - Young People’s Experiences of Front Line Services in England] in ''The British Journal of Criminology'', 59, 481-500</ref> Much less work concerns "child sex trafficking" in particular, and Agustin-type observational studies of ''youth'' sex workers would be almost impossible because of ethical restrictions. We use a range of sources and invite readers to form their own opinion as to the veracity of the child-saver industry's more outlandish claims.''

[Reference used:] {{reflist}}

Now, it may also be helpful if we could find other case studies on "trafficked" minors identified by agencies and self-report. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:25, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

It seems that use of the word "choice" (active, deliberate, etc) is theoretical in most such publications and not substantive. Gearon insists that it is not applied to minors, but I also added this from UNICEF, which seems to take a completely different line (despite the source interviews being similar in tone):

:''In 2008, UNICEF described this as a "deliberate choice" on the part of trafficked minors in a majority of interviewees.''<ref>[https://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/iwp_2008_05.pdf Dottridge, Mike (2008). Young People’s Voices on Child Trafficking: Experiences from South Eastern Europe, Innocenti Working Papers, no. 2008-05]</ref>

[Reference used:] {{reflist}}

Hi,

To be honest, after reading this paper in more detail, I have no issue with removing any reference to this paper from Newgon. In fact, I think it should be removed. The abstract is highly misleading and the article eventually becomes largely in opposition to Newgon's ethos and aims. The narratives included are about minors who do not know where they're going, or what they're going to be doing when they get there.

E.g. quote:
"Contrary to being deemed as ‘consenting’ to their migration, young people’s experiences reveal that they exercised no choice in leaving their home countries. Family members often made the decision to migrate or agreed travel arrangements on their behalf,

So when I was told that I was going with her, to be living with her child living in London, like in village we used to call it like ‘white peoples’ land’ … you don’t really have say on this matter, the adults know what’s best, you carry on, even if you don’t want to go. (Maya)

When my uncle he do a deal with agent … I didn’t have choice … I didn’t choose the country, because my uncle he choose this for me. (Ammar)

Many young people did not know where they were going."

I don't think we need this study on Newgon. If anything, I am surprised at Gearon's finding that "front-line" services interpreted "young people’s migration as voluntary and consensual" in any way. This seems extremely odd.

My concern with "trafficking" is where this term is used by SWERFS/ SWERF esq ppl to encompass any sex work that involves crossing borders. If anything, Gearon's cases are the kind of cases we don't want happening. I think we can remove the reference with no issues, we have a LOT left on that page.

The way Gearon has now been used could be replaced by a citation like this: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/everything-you-think-you_b_9772910

Quote:

"At the federal level any young person involved in commercial sex acts is considered a victim of a severe form of human trafficking. Because prostitution laws are regulated by states, it is not uncommon to have young people being arrested for prostitution-related offenses.

Unfortunately, because their behavior is criminalized and because many of these young people report having experience abuse perpetrated by police officers, they largely do not think of law enforcement as a safety option"

All the best

:I'd like to preface anything related to sex work in particular with what is known about trafficking according to "trafficked children". We can assume that as these are complaint-led reviews and because charities and child protective services typically have a much lower bar of evidence than the criminal system, that this is pretty much the worst kind of substantiated (as in recorded) complaint related to child trafficking into ''developed economies''. I think it's important to have those studies, so I added another one from UNICEF and explained how we are using them in an editorial note.

:As our article concerns Youth Sex Work, anything related to that specific topic should have its own excerpt. We are attempting to inform a conclusion about sex work, although we are obviously a long way away from that. The way I have improved the article is just to make more clear cut distinctions re. how we cite the work. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 18:10, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

==Feminist Bios==

As per the design of these wiki pages, we will eventually need individual articles on the Feminist authors in [[Feminism]]. This will glue together the excerpts you have taken with some basic biographical information, and the aforementioned article will then be cut down to size, with each author summarized and linked. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 00:39, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

==Historical and Ethnological Compendium==

Thanks for your submissions. Once I am on my desktop, I will look at some of the formatting on the most recent edits.

I have a long term plan to combine the articles on history and ethnology into one, and fill it with summaries of various literature reviews and a full review of Janssen. We are likely to use the standard article format (as opposed to excerpts) to achieve this, but I will use highlighter to denote three different time periods, probably up to the middle ages, pre Victorian and the modern industrial era. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 12:54, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

===Siwa===

Do you think there is anything useful in here for our non-western or historical article: [[Media:Siwa today by David Thorstad.pdf|Siwa today]] --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 21:39, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

:I'm amazed at the Thorstand stuff you're digging up. It's incredible. I'll take a look at this article and see if I find anything to add :)

::Looks like we use the WA Percy version in the history compendium, but a load more references. Maybe we can see what the quote comes from, write a lede and tidy the refs.--[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 23:18, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

==Feray, Plummer==

Thanks for adding these bios. If possible, could you add some categories to Feray and to Plummer when you have finished editing. Feray has now been tidied up and is ready to be categorized. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 21:29, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

==Guidance==

Thanks for your recent edits. It would be great if you could have a look here, particularly with respect to internal linking of files. Much like external links in a body of text are rarely superior to a reference list, internal file links should be formatted and not presented as an external link. E.g. <nowiki>[[Media:Wiki.png|Site Logo]]</nowiki>. The prior text in an edit window will result in a link to our site logo with the text "Site Logo" when published. The benefits of this are... firstly that Newgon is not an external. Secondly that if our url changes, the link automatically changes to new domain.net.

[[NewgonWiki:Working standards and technical advice]]

If my eyes are up to the task, I'll go over the edits in a few days and see what I can do. Maybe Helen can also help. On a medical enforced rest here unfortunately. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 18:13, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

"On a medical enforced rest here unfortunately"
> I'm not religious but I pray for your good health! Be safe, be well, and thanks for all you do! - Prue

===Cite a reference as many times as you like===

Thanks for your edits to Ken Plummer. Here is a tip. To cite a ref multiple times, try the following wikitext:

<nowiki><ref name=Google>[http://Google.com Google Website]</ref></nowiki>

Then when you repeat the tag <nowiki><ref name="Google" /></nowiki> after any passage of text for which you wish to use the same citation, the inline citation will point to the same footnote. The footnote will refer back by internal link to each use within the article.

[[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity]] does this frequently with some citations. Open up the edit window and take a look at the wikitext. And then look at the footnote list. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 22:03, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

===Categorization of archive pages is essential===

Categorization and archiving is absolutely essential to our project. You have uploaded plenty of material that is invisible to our archiving system as a result of failing to categorize or archive it. Please check Helen's recent uploads for an example of how archive material must be categorized, much like articles. All the relevant subcategories can be found here:

[[:Category:Archival]]

Much of that material must also enter the Chronological Archive. But it is your call as to what enters, in line with the chronological archive's focus on activism and texts of import. I can simply not patrol all this content right now due to my health, but thanks for your edits. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 19:32, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

===A productive exercize===

Thanks for your recent edits. I'm a bit behind with my stylistic and formatting alterations of the recent edits. I'd like to suggest something that might help in learning MediaWiki, because I have a pet theory that you have not looked into it because of the obscurity of this software. That is the "history and diffs" section of this wiki!

For example, go to "recent changes". Click on the "history" link for an article that you have edited recently, when it shows that I have gone in afterwards and corrected some style and formatting. Then click on the "diff" of my edits. This will show you how I have changed the wikicode along with the edit summary I have added. I do believe this is the fastest way to learn good wikicode, and not knowing that these hints and tips exist may be one of the reasons why you do things like adding a link to our own article inside ref tags (unnecessary), or as an external link, which leaves me scratching my head.

The categories topic above can be solved by simply adding <nowiki>[[Category:Nameofcategory]]</nowiki> to the file description when you upload it. This makes it visible to hundreds more readers - i.e. people who use cats to navigate --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 20:14, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice! I'll remember to category archive files in future! Haha, I have looked around the various pages you've spotlighted to me, but you'd be right in that I've been learning by doing, and that I've never contributed to wiki style pages like this before helping out w/ Newgon. I think I'm getting much better at it; now the task is to get quicker at it! Thanks and be well! - Prue

== Eric Gill ==

Thanks for the contributions on [[Eric Gill]]. Please take a look at my changes and edit summaries for my last two edits to the article. This will help you: 1. Link a Wikipedia article simply using wikicode as opposed to an external link. 2. Create a reference that is coded so that you can use it as a citation at multiple points in an article using the <nowiki><ref name="ABCXYZ" /></nowiki> attribute (as opposed to creating notes such as "see reference ABCXYZ". --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 18:49, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Roger Moody ==

Thanks for your article, Roger Moody. We should invent some kind of Wikipedia Barnstar, for all your submissions.

I can see only one issue after my recent edit (description and diffs in article history): That is he is Category:People: Desceased. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 14:20, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

"We should invent some kind of Wikipedia Barnstar, for all your submissions." > Had to look that up. Thanks pallio it's nice to have your work appreciated; thanks for all you do and yes the edits are all looking good. Prue ~

==Thanks==

Thanks for all your recent edits, I can see it is a lot and will try to go over all of them today.

For now, I have just changed [[Peter Schult]] in one edit. Please take a look at the diffs on that change.

I have deliberately left one thing unattended, too. Can you tell what it is? Hint: it's a header/title near the bottom of the article... --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 11:55, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

:I believe he may also qualify for <nowiki>[[Category:Law/Crime]][[Category:Law/Crime: German]]</nowiki>

:It will be great to get [[Ernest Borneman]] finished and categorized. Looks like it just needs some basic changes.

:Above your editing box, you will see a little button with a tiny x followed by a scribble. That is your signature (represented in wikitext as <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>). Print your signature after your comment on talk pages like this. Also indent sequential comments in a talk page convo as I have done with this one. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 11:57, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

::I'll set us up now, and do the following job. The missing element was the References header, which you just need to put as a separate line before the categories at the end of the article:

::<nowiki>==References==</nowiki>

::The list auto-generates below this heading. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 14:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

:::Having done this, I have made some changes to [[Text of Beispiel Peter Schult]] including changing the title to reflect that it is an archive article, and removing encyclopedia categories. I have introduced archival categories from [[:Category:Archival]] (including the root). I believe your text will be ready for the chrono archive when it is complete, so you can pre-emptively add it there. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 15:08, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

==Schult book==

I moved the first section to [[:File:Peter Schult - Pedophilia in Public Discourse.pdf]] so it looks nice on screen in the categories. No need to alter or categorize the other files. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 19:10, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Okay I was worried for a second there; had the whole thing written out with all the links, then it said the preface was deleted! XD Uploaded what I'd done to [[https://www.newgon.net/wiki/File:Peter_Schult_-_Pedophilia_in_Public_Discourse.pdf]] --[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 19:16, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

:No, just keeping the archive-listed file name presentable. Some people like to use categories to search, and I am not aware of how we can make custom titles override the file name when a file appears in a category. I'll be back on around Friday - trying to give myself a break every week. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 22:26, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

::No worries, I think I'll take a break too. I'm happy with the additions I've been able to make but I'm probably spending a bit ''too much'' time on it. Except the celibate ones, the Famous peds blog is almost completely reproduced on Newgon now. Take care; I hope you're well :) --[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 23:20, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

:::Yes, thanks so much. I have requested for the file size limit to be raised by admin. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 00:04, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

::::If it would be helpful for me to have some level of Admin here to help out and monitor changes, since I've now spent some time creating pages, I'd be happy to offer to help out in some way if that eases the burden on you. It wouldn't be all that hard for me to monitor the addition of wikitext and look over changes as we try to get others in the PCMA etc to contribute) --[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 00:11, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

:::::That would be great. What we really need is a big enough editing team, such that a decent number of editors are familiar with protocols, and can patrol edits, so the material we put out is consistent in style. I can still do that, and will check over all recent material at the weekends. I might make some additions to the style guide and cheat sheet soon, as well. I'll probably also update the category list with the archival and essay categories.

:::::Are you planning to finish your summary of Peter Schult's biography, by the way? I think it might work better as a book review on an encyclopedia page about a book. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:22, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

::::::Yes I do plan on continuing the summary of the Schult book. I think it'd be good to label it as 'selected quotes' rather than summary. I've got some more quotes ready, but not skimmed the full book yet. And yes, how can we recruit writers or get people to contribute regularly? We have some very dedicated ppl in the PCMA who are clearly very knowledgeable; it would be great if they could help out more adding info.--[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 03:30, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

==Listing younger partners in the category==

I have just found that we can list younger partners in this category, without creating an article for them.

[[:Category:People: Adult or Minor sexually attracted to or involved with the other]]

I did this by creating a redirect for Virginia Clemm to Edgar Allan Poe, but including the category in the redirect page. You will see that she now appears in italics, in that list - as she should. It's not a task I would want to do myself (for the whole encyclopedia), but good to see it can be done eventually. I would suggest not using any other categories (especially the main encyclopedia category, history categories, which the article will alreadybe listed in) unless the secondary topic of the article were particularly notable in any given area.

I guess this also means we can create articles on organizations such as Gays Against Groomers, without messing up our categories with a secondary article on Jaimee Michell. But we can still make her appear in our category of unsympathetic people, etc. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 11:17, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

==Famous Indians - Bios==

Handsome Jack (who is on a break from frontline activism after the fallout in Matrix) has put forward these famous Indians who had young partners:

*'''Dr. Ambedkar''' - literally the person who wrote India's Constitution, married a 9yo girl, when he was 15
*'''Gangadhar Rao''' (28) who married Rani Laxmibai (very famous figure in India) when she was 13
*'''Gopalrao Joshi''' (29) who married Anandibai Gopal, India's first female doctor (9) --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 12:25, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahadev_Govind_Ranade Mahadev Govind Ranade]'''

==Another thing maybe==

I now realize that a lot of the new pages are orphans (no links from elsewhere in the wiki) or otherwise have very few links to them. What you could do, maybe, is go through the list of names, and pick a few who are particularly well-known, and search for their name in the search bar. Wherever their name appears in an article (and is not part of an existing link, for example), you can put their name in square brackets, to make the articles more visible. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 20:10, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

:Thanks for adding the see alsos, I didn't think of that. I've broken the big lists into two or three columns to make it look nicer. I've also searched the wiki for mentions of people in your articles and put them all in <nowiki>[[square brackets]]</nowiki>. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 14:23, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

==I've been over Schrodinger==

Thanks, the article is very detailed. The changes I made are reflected in my edit summary:

But a few notes -

1. You do not need to use a new blockquote for each line of a quote. In fact, avoid it, since it gives the false impression of multiple quotes. As well as being... just harder for the writer and subsequent editors.

2. Quotes inside blockquotes should be italic, and without quotation marks at the start and end. Ellipses and editors notes should not be in italics. I deliberately left one ellipses in italics. Could you change it to non italic by placing <nowiki>''</nowiki> <text> <nowiki>''</nowiki> either side of it?

3. The references really should have titles - all of them. It's an excellent article, but having naked URLs visible in the footer of the article is bad style and detracts from the rest of the article. Readers assume "the writer is just finding links to cite, and is spamming them into a reference template, not finding out what the cites actually are".

As for point 3, my eyes are past doing that work today. Maybe I can get through the other new articles in faster time tomorrow? --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 20:48, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

:I've made a few further changes and corrected some italics. I'm using the pink highlighter to reduce the amount of bold, and changed your bolds into italics. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 12:37, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

An important thing about italics and wiki formatting in general (not html fixes like blockquotes and text color), is that it works on a "per line basis".

So, say I want to change the following passage to italics:

asdf

mnbv

This is what I type:

<nowiki>''asdf''</nowiki>

<nowiki>''mnbv''</nowiki>

If I were to type this:

<nowiki>''asdf</nowiki>

<nowiki>mnbv''</nowiki>

I would not get italics

Say I want to remove italics from a [...] on a line that is already italicized. I simply need to put a <nowiki>'' and an ''</nowiki> either side of it to close and reopen the italic passage.

But say the [...] were on a new line altogether, doing that would make it italic, which is unwanted. You would just type [...] with no formatting --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 12:50, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

==What do you think about [[Michel Foucault]] and [[Alfred Kinsey]]?==

These look like bios we started years ago, but never fully completed.

P.S. I've been thinking about how we reference Wikipedia, and I think it's best as an in-text link. Here's my rationale: Wikipedia pages are ever-changing, and could god forbid be vandalized by people working from here, or removing inconvenient facts. Therefore, we don't know if they will change or stay the same, so a tagged reference is best avoided. The link in-text just says "here is the information, it should back up what we are asserting".

To link a wikipedia page in text, we have the simple wikicode:

<nowiki>[[Wikipedia:Elon Musk|Chief Twit]]</nowiki>

results in:

[[Wikipedia:Elon Musk|Chief Twit]]

--[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 21:15, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

==New Template==

There is a new template to add to most decent size articles concerning academia.

[[:Template:Ac]]

Hopefully adding someone to it is pretty easy, just preview to check that the line isn't too wide. I'll start adding it to a few articles, if they haven't already got a template on, and are big enough to accommodate it. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 19:07, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

==Archive alert==

I have used the Web Archive to replace lost links in the Tony Duvert article, particularly Extracts from ''Quand mourut Jonathan''.

Please make personal copies if you need to. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 21:48, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

==Interesting==

https://www.boywiki.org/en/Michael_Davidson --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 21:52, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

==Homosexualities==

What other journals have you got on your radar? I do believe that ''Homosexualities'', ''Journal of LGBT Youth'', ''Journal of Sex Research'', ''Psychological Bulletin'' and ''Archives of Sexual Behavior'' deserve a mention. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 23:40, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

==Position==

Hi. Would you like me to add you as an editorial lead on the [[Newgon Support Team]] (''Social History and Critical Theory'')? The role is a membership role, entails no responsibilities, but just describes the general purview of an editor's work. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 19:56, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Sure. Sounds great, and apt in my case. So yes go ahead. All the best --[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 18:13, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

==Herman and Brownmiller==

[https://www.simplycharly.com/read/reviews/the-trauma-myth-the-truth-about-the-sexual-abuse-of-children-and-its-aftermat/ This] might interest you:

:''In the 1960s and 1970s, however, the author explains how professional assumptions about child sexual abuse changed, in large part due to the work of child-protection advocates and feminists such as '''Judith Herman and Susan Brownmiller''', who pushed for the end of victim-blaming. By the 1980s and 1990s, sexual abuse was framed as a traumatic event and conceptualized as a form of post-traumatic stress disorder, in large part to protect victims and reclaim the validity of their abuse. In chapters four and five, Clancy sets out to answer the two questions underpinning the book: why does the trauma myth damage victims?'' --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:06, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

All I found is that Herman published a lot later, and Brownmiller was an anti-rape feminist of the early 70s, and held media posts in the 60s, which may have allowed her to exert some influence... --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:25, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

==Robert Bonin==

Maybe we should profile him, or the scandal surrounding him. Or at least add it to [[Boston-Boise affair]]. [https://www.greek-love.com/media/PDFs/Mitzel.Boston.Sex.Scandal.pdf]. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 21:29, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

==This may be of interest==

[http://fondationprincessedecroy.eu/001-magazines_pedo_porno-sources.htm] --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 18:26, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

==Gennadium B. Derjágin==

http://samlib.ru/g/galaburda_k_e/materialsaboutgennadiumderjaginhtm.shtml

https://ru-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%8F%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%BD,_%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

May be worth a short bio. Guy on Yesmap News room has posted a load of links (in Russian) suggesting he has been involved in a sex scandal (consensual) with a boy. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 23:07, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

==Jacques Dugué==

Ever heard of him? Mentioned in the De Orio thesis mentioned in my Lloyd Martin article. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:34, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Never heard of him. But that doesn't mean we can't find out more! :p In fairness, I'd not heard of any of the Frenchmen associated with the 2 French groups GRED or CRIES.--[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 15:51, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

:https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Jacques_Dugu%C3%A9 --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 23:19, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

==Alim Khan==

A significant political figure of last century who had a harem of 200 boys! May interest you - [https://thejinnandtonic.wordpress.com/2013/10/06/the-gay-emir-of-bokhara-and-his-dancing-boys/] [https://edchow.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/some-hints-on-the-history-of-bacha-bazi-1865-1913/] --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 18:02, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

:Thanks, have just had a look and will read the 1st in more detail later. I wonder if we should do a general page about the practice of dancing boys in history? I am fairly sure it's been common in a lot of now-western societies? Perhaps we can mention it w/ a brief quote / quotes on the non western intergen page, and link out to other info? But yes, defo interesting, and Alim Khan sounds like someone we can make a brief page on...--[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 15:33, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

::[[Pederasty in Islam]] details most of this, but I agree we need separate pages. We need a section on Islam in [[Youth-Adult Marriage]]. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 20:27, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

==Wanted Article Proposal==

Hi Prue, interested in writing an article for what's currently at the top of the Most Wanted Pages. It would be very short, just a matter of their standard boiler-plate contact info. This would be a double-plus-discretion issue; it goes without saying that I would want to run it by you . . . and them . . . before posting anything, even a draft. One doesn't want to give offense. Do you have an email to where we could discuss the early drafts privately?
[[User:Didaskalosmrm|Didaskalosmrm]] ([[User talk:Didaskalosmrm|talk]]) 23:36, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

:I am not sure it needs or ought to be. But if one is made of said organization, sure, it should be "standard boiler-plate contact info" as you say. As for my email, if you ask Strat he'll be able to send you my email. Best not to post these things publicly cuz' it gets you lots of spam. On another note, after reading your bio, I have a suggestion for you: you know a lot about, have read or have a copy of "A Defence of Uranian Love"? There was apparently a re-print edition which Bill Percy was involved in, and I have seen a lot of older texts being re-vamped (which is great) - but this one I couldn't find... [There's an entry here but if download works I'd have to see... https://annas-archive.org/md5/e84460225299fdb97ab6551d1b8c5b25 ]. Anyway, the internet could do w/ a public page about this book and it sounds like you'd be ideal to do that :) Perhaps experiment w/ a page about the book. A bit of bio on the author (or just link to an external Wiki about him), and some summarizing / choice quotes (from Kaylor, Percy, Warren) you think others' would benefit from seeing. I think this would be a good historical service to have a go at. Good to have you on board! --[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 22:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

==Camaron de la Isla==

This may be someone who we could add.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camar%C3%B3n_de_la_Isla --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 19:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

:[https://www.boychat.org/messages/1623268.htm] --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

::Done! :p [[Camarón de la Isla]]. And ooo, I got a mention on BC! Funny enough, I was literally talking to someone today about Warren's book, so I will see if I can get a PDF copy of the reprint edition. I'd like to see what Percy and Kaylor had to say about the book. Will be back laters to do a brief page about Warren and the book. :) --[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 10:35, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

==Peter Singer==

[https://fstube.net/w/hmtebovSUMueTXX623J3BM] --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 11:34, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

==Peter Melzer==

I have found an [[:File:Melzer.png|image]] of the late Peter Melzer (Mr. Melzer in Chickenhawk), who just passed away. We can probably wait for Manstuprator on BoyChat to publish his research before compiling the definitive profile of Melzer.

Here is his post: [https://www.boychat.org/messages/1623724.htm] --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 13:21, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

:Awesome. And a very well written, summarized account of this guy from Manstuprator. Will look into it more, see what I see / discover, and produce something in the next few days. Seems like the community is very interested in this and wants a good article / send-off asap. I will work on something :) ... --[[User:Prue|Prue]] ([[User talk:Prue|talk]]) 10:28, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

==Vaush==

There have been recent controversies centering on his probable interest in drawn child erotica and attempts to construct convoluted defenses in response videos. I'm guessing it will have made some "news" sites. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Debate Guide: Religious arguments

2024-02-18T00:49:10Z

JohnHolt:

[[File:Millst.jpg|thumb|Better A Millstone was also the name of a "pedo hunter" website founded by the late [[Mike Echols]].]]
In modern western society, religion-based arguments are not considered effective when discussing the morality of a particular subject. Still, they are used in some circumstances and cultures, so it may be worth refuting any erroneous arguments on the supposed immorality of [[pedophilia]], [[Minor Attracted Person|minor attractions]], adult-child relationships - and by extension even adult-minor relationships well beyond adulthood/marriageable age for biblical times.

===Typical argument and rebuttals===

Religious [[anti]]-MAPs, namely anti-MAP Christians, tend to present a distorted narrative using misconstrued or misunderstood verses from the Bible to justify the view that Christianity condemns [[pedophilia]] in particular, or at the very least adult-child relationships or the act of sex between a child and an adult.

This is false, and should be refuted because the narrative is used to justify specific contemporary views on pedophilia associated with modern Western culture. These arguments present a distorted view of history, and a book written two millennia ago, with parts that are much older. This is [[Wikipedia:Historical revisionism|ahistorical and revisionist]], assuming widely held views were the same back then, and by implication throughout known history.

In short, there are no verses in the Bible specifically against pedophilia. The most popularly (mis)quoted verse by anti-MAPs is the following:

<blockquote>''But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.'' '''Matthew 18:6'''</blockquote>

This passage, if it even refers to children ("little ones"), rather than believers in general as sources would interpret,<ref>[https://www.gotquestions.org/little-ones.html Who are the “little ones” in Matthew 18:6?]</ref> refers to making them sin (for example, harming or deceiving others), in general, sometimes translated as "to stumble", i.e. making them stray from faith in God.

While there are many verses in the Bible condemning of fornication (sex outside of marriage) which as such could be considered a sin, this argument alone definitely does not cut it as an anti-MAP/anti-pedophilia argument, considering child marriage historically being commonplace, and certainly would not work as an argument against the mere attraction.

This works as a general refutation of anti-MAP interpretations such verses, and any further examples will be added at a later date.

There are also several verses in the Bible that seem to approve of adult-child ''marriage'':
[[File:Judaeoc.png|thumb|Judaeo-Christian legal and scriptural takes on younger-older relations (expands). Dark excerpts likely from Florence Rush<ref>[https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=6271E61B5C2B5EEE715A26855FE75F46 The Best Kept Secret]</ref>]][[File:Permittedislam.png|thumb|Some behaviors permitted in Islamic [[Youth-Adult Marriage]]s<ref>[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Thighing Thighing - WikiIslam]</ref>]]
<blockquote>''And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.'' '''Numbers 31:1-18'''</blockquote>

<blockquote>''When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it ... And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself.'' '''Deuteronomy 20:10-14'''</blockquote>

<blockquote>''How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing we have sworn by the LORD that we will not give them of our daughters to wives? ... And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children. And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man. And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh.'' '''Judges 21:7-11'''</blockquote>

<blockquote>''Go and lie in wait in the vineyards; And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh ... And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught.'' '''Judges 21:20-23'''</blockquote>

<blockquote>''But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.'' '''1 Corinthians 7:36'''</blockquote>

Some scholars also argue that Isaac married his wife when she was ten (Genesis 24:12-20, Numbers 31:18). The bible also directly opposes hate as sinful (Matthew 5:44-48, Luke 6:27-35, Luke 6:37), and therefore one must assume, the witch-hunt on "pedophiles" exemplified by obscene and demonic imagery in media and literary representations since at least the 1970s (e.g. [[David Sonenschein]] - ''Pedophiles on Parade'', vol.1). Bringing harm unto children is also sinful (1st John 3:11, 3:18, 3:23), meaning that [[Wikipedia:sociogenesis|sociogenic harm]] (invasion of privacy, criminal processing and social shaming of children) is thusly condemned.

==References==

[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Adults]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]

Debate Guide: Religious arguments

2024-02-18T00:45:19Z

JohnHolt:

[[File:Millst.jpg|thumb|Better A Millstone was also the name of a "pedo hunter" website founded by the late [[Mike Echols]].]]
In this age, religion-based arguments are not considered effective when discussing the morality of a particular subject. Still, they are sometimes used, so it may be worth refuting any erroneous arguments on the supposed immorality of [[pedophilia]], [[Minor Attracted Person|minor attractions]], adult-child relationships - and by extension even adult-minor relationships well beyond adulthood/marrigeable age for biblical times.

===Typical argument and rebuttals===

Religious [[anti]]-MAPs, namely anti-MAP Christians, tend to present a distorted narrative using misconstrued or misunderstood verses from the Bible to justify the view that Christianity condemns [[pedophilia]] in particular, or at the very least adult-child relationships or the act of sex between a child and an adult.

This is false, and should be refuted because the narrative is used to justify specific contemporary views on pedophilia associated with modern Western culture. These arguments present a distorted view of history, and a book written two millennia ago, with parts that are much older. This is [[Wikipedia:Historical revisionism|ahistorical and revisionist]], assuming widely held views were the same back then, and by implication throughout known history.

In short, there are no verses in the Bible specifically against pedophilia. The most popularly (mis)quoted verse by anti-MAPs is the following:

<blockquote>''But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.'' '''Matthew 18:6'''</blockquote>

This passage, if it even refers to children ("little ones"), rather than believers in general as sources would interpret,<ref>[https://www.gotquestions.org/little-ones.html Who are the “little ones” in Matthew 18:6?]</ref> refers to making them sin (for example, harming or deceiving others), in general, sometimes translated as "to stumble", i.e. making them stray from faith in God.

While there are many verses in the Bible condemning of fornication (sex outside of marriage) which as such could be considered a sin, this argument alone definitely does not cut it as an anti-MAP/anti-pedophilia argument, considering child marriage historically being commonplace, and certainly would not work as an argument against the mere attraction.

This works as a general refutation of anti-MAP interpretations such verses, and any further examples will be added at a later date.

There are also several verses in the Bible that seem to approve of adult-child ''marriage'':
[[File:Judaeoc.png|thumb|Judaeo-Christian legal and scriptural takes on younger-older relations (expands). Dark excerpts likely from Florence Rush<ref>[https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=6271E61B5C2B5EEE715A26855FE75F46 The Best Kept Secret]</ref>]][[File:Permittedislam.png|thumb|Some behaviors permitted in Islamic [[Youth-Adult Marriage]]s<ref>[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Thighing Thighing - WikiIslam]</ref>]]
<blockquote>''And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.'' '''Numbers 31:1-18'''</blockquote>

<blockquote>''When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it ... And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself.'' '''Deuteronomy 20:10-14'''</blockquote>

<blockquote>''How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing we have sworn by the LORD that we will not give them of our daughters to wives? ... And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children. And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man. And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh.'' '''Judges 21:7-11'''</blockquote>

<blockquote>''Go and lie in wait in the vineyards; And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh ... And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught.'' '''Judges 21:20-23'''</blockquote>

<blockquote>''But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.'' '''1 Corinthians 7:36'''</blockquote>

Some scholars also argue that Isaac married his wife when she was ten (Genesis 24:12-20, Numbers 31:18). The bible also directly opposes hate as sinful (Matthew 5:44-48, Luke 6:27-35, Luke 6:37), and therefore one must assume, the witch-hunt on "pedophiles" exemplified by obscene and demonic imagery in media and literary representations since at least the 1970s (e.g. [[David Sonenschein]] - ''Pedophiles on Parade'', vol.1). Bringing harm unto children is also sinful (1st John 3:11, 3:18, 3:23), meaning that [[Wikipedia:sociogenesis|sociogenic harm]] (invasion of privacy, criminal processing and social shaming of children) is thusly condemned.

==References==

[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Adults]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]

Virtuous Pedophiles

2024-02-18T00:25:24Z

JohnHolt: /* Social Media */

__NOTOC__
[[File:Virp.jpg|thumb|Logo]]
'''Virtuous Pedophiles''' (aka '''Virped''', founded June, 2012) is an online forum and peer support community for [[Minor Attracted People|MAPs]], particularly [[pedophilia|pedophiles]] who agree to conduct themselves in a socially-appropriate fashion, including the complete rejection of reform positions on [[minor-adult sex|sex between adults and minors]] (sometimes referred to '''ACNOMAPS''' - [[Anti-contact]] and [[NOMAP]]). Members have presented themselves as battling against unwanted impulses,<ref>[http://www.salon.com/2012/07/01/meet_pedophiles_who_mean_well/ "Meet pedophiles who mean well: The men behind VirtuousPedophiles.com are attracted to children but devoted to denying their desires". Salon.com.]</ref> leading some to describe them as subservient to the predominant medical narrative of pedophilia. Virped nevertheless pursues an agenda of destigmatization in their limited public advocacy work. The group is synonymous with its heyday of the mid-10s in much the same way [[NAMBLA]] is associated with the 80s.

The two founders of the group use the pseudonyms '''Ethan Edwards and Nick Devin''', and formed '''Virped''' because they objected to [[B4U-ACT]]'s noncommittal stance re. their deeply held [[anti-contact]] views. There are over 2000 users registered, including parents of children, parents of pedophiles, and a few sex researchers. Websites that have pursued a similar approach are the German website Schicksal und Herausforderung (German for Fate and Challenge) and the Czech forum ČEPEK.

The group's efforts have been supported for their potential benefits by several human sexuality experts.<ref>[http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pedophiles-20130115,0,197689.story "Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia". L.A. Times.]</ref><ref>[http://ec.libsyn.com/p/f/7/c/f7cc1c69daaade64/savagelove-121812.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01cf8f37d4ca5fff06&c_id=5238826 "Savage Love Podcast (episode 321) Starts at 21:30". Retrieved 27 April 2014.]</ref> The group was acknowledged in a New York Times editorial about the distinction between pedophilia and child sexual abuse by law professor Margo Kaplan. Kaplan wrote, "It is not that these individuals are 'inactive' or 'nonpracticing' pedophiles, but rather that pedophilia is a status and not an act." In 2022, the group was linked to a pamphleting campaign in the United Kingdom. Despite the fact this was only publicized by a radical feminist with a track record of outrage-mongering, they resulted in the banning of Virped's public account from [[MAP visibility on Twitter|Twitter]].<ref>[https://reduxx.info/pro-pedophile-organization-placing-propaganda-letters-in-uk-libraries/ Reduxx - Virped Pamphlet Campaign]</ref> It appears Virped had given a newly recruited social media manager access to their 7-year old Twitter account, and he then made a series of posts claiming that he was engaged in the campaign, oblivious to the risk this posed to the account.

==Concept and founding==

''What We Virtuous Pedophiles Really Believe'', by Ethan Edwards (in [[Media:Alice Lovers Magazine 4.pdf|Alice Lovers Magazine No. 4]]).

<blockquote>''For peer support, Nick was referred to the B4U-ACT peer support group. Unfortunately he did not enjoy his time there. He thought they were unnecessarily antagonistic towards scientists who had befriended him. And, in fact, its leader Richard Kramer alienated these scientists by aggressively criticizing them for supporting the view that there is such a thing as pedophilic disorder, as expressed in the proposed DSM-5 TM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 2013). Nick also believed that the societal hatred attached to pedophilia could be reduced if society could be made to understand the difference between pedophilia (sexual feelings towards children) and child sexual abuse (sexual acts with children). He felt that B4U-ACT could make progress in this area, but only if it unequivocally stated that adults should not have sexual contact with children. B4U-ACT refused to do this because it believed this would alienate pedophiles and also, Nick believed, because many of its leaders felt that adult-child sex should be legal. After trying to get B4U-ACT to modify its views, Nick decided the differences were too great to be bridged, and in 2011 he resigned from the organization. He had an idea of creating a website that would express the reality that many pedophiles are dedicated to (and succeed at) avoiding sexual contact with children. Nick began work on a website for this new organization in 2012.''</blockquote>

==Social Media==

Virped has been active on Twitter for some time; '''@virpeds''' has an account creation date of October 2015, however, it was suspended in late August, 2022, following the above-mentioned pamphleting controversy. Before the account even existed, they were given some support by [[James Cantor]], mentioned by CBC News, [[Karen Franklin]] and the [[Alfred Kinsey|Kinsey Institute]].

Virped employed a two-forked social media strategy on Twitter, using one account to collect followers and retweet the comments of another. This appeared to be a strategy to avoid suspensions. It is a little-known fact that Virped's secondary account ('''@virpedspeaks''') continued to operate on a private basis until around the turn of April and May 2023, when it was banned in the wake of Elon Musk's renewed wave of bans against "child exploitation" accounts.<ref>[https://twitter.com/DrGTenbergen/status/1653498076445790214 G Tenbergen - Virped ban] It is of note that this was in the wake of the 2023 [[Alice Day]]/[[Youth Attracted Person]] controversy.</ref> In October 2023, undeterred by previous bans, Virped launched '''@virpedofficial''', which has seen minimal activity as per Feb 2024.

==Moderation, ethos and criticism==

Virped have pursued strict rules of moderation from the outset. According to their founder:

:''"we do not allow discussions of whether adult-[minor] sex is fundamentally OK ''[...]'' We banned discussion of Trump some time ago, and more recently have banned anti-vax positions ''[...]'' we don't allow jokes with the N-word"''<ref>[https://secure.boychat.org/messages/1584775.htm BoyChat post: Introducing (drum roll): Virtuous Pedophiles!]</ref>

Their history with the [[boylove]] community goes back some time, and tends not to be particularly positive. They have at times been described as cult-like in their mode of operation.<ref>[https://secure.boychat.org/messages/1445888.htm BoyChat post: Virtuous Pedophiles is a hoax, nothing more]</ref><ref>[https://secure.boychat.org/messages/1574088.htm BoyChat post: Who is lying here?]</ref> The group's use of potentially mischaracterizing terms such as [[pro-c|pro-contact]] and [[anti-contact]] has also drawn criticism in some quarters, as has the idea of [[pro-c]] MAPs being "lectured" on moral values by forum members, some of whom are ex-cons.

===Hard [[medicalism]]===

Virped's FAQ states "we would certainly wish that any newborn baby not turn out to be a pedophile". This hard medicalist focus has been cited as somewhat concerning, given one of their main supporters is Dr. [[James Cantor]], who aggressively focuses his research on finding biological markers for pedophilia.

===Religiousity===

Virped have not attempted to hide their religious connections from the very beginning, and the group remains open to people of all faiths. In one article, the experiences of two LDS Virpeds are charted.<ref>[https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2022/07/experiences-of-latter-day-saint-virtuous-pedophiles/ Experiences of Latter-day Saint “Virtuous Pedophiles”]</ref>

===Reduction in activity===

Insiders have reported a reduction in forum activity in 2021 and 2022 - including, but not limited to the absence of key representatives and their activist initiatives.

==See also==

*[[Prostasia Foundation]]
*[[B4U-ACT]]
*[[Todd Nickerson]] and [[Gary Gibson]] - Examples of Virpeds who have gained publicity in the media.
*[[Operation Underground Railroad]] - Another organization with religious roots, including LDS, but on the opposite side of the debate.

==External links==

*[http://www.virped.org/ Official site]
:*[https://www.virped.org/our-supporters.html Supporters]
*[https://www.boywiki.org/en/Virtuous_Pedophiles BoyWiki]
*[https://heretictoc.com/2013/11/22/virtuous-turkeys-vote-for-christmas/ Heretic TOC Article]

===Depictions of similarly aligned pedophiles===

These were popular in the mid-10s media, and include various NOMAP-sympathetic documentaries, such as ''[[I, Pedophile]]'' and ''The Pedophile Next Door''. Further examples:

*[https://www.vice.com/en/article/nn9b8d/can-we-ever-change-our-attitudes-towards-paedophilia-279 Daniel's World] - Czech [https://dafilms.com/film/9659-daniel-s-world documentary].
*Salon articles focusing on [[Todd Nickerson]].

==References==

[[Category:Official Encyclopedia]]
[[Category:Censorship]][[Category:Child Advocacy]][[Category:Cyber Activism]][[Category:Organisations]][[Category:Organisations: Sympathetic]][[Category:Organisations: Web-based]][[Category:Organisations: International]][[Category:Websites]][[Category:Websites: MAP]][[Category:Websites: Sympathetic]][[Category:Websites: Generic]][[Category:History & Events: International]][[Category:History & Events: 2010s]]

File:Shoe.png

2024-02-17T11:25:20Z

JohnHolt:

Debate Guide: Reverse sexualization

2024-02-17T00:52:21Z

JohnHolt:

[[Image:Armani.PNG|thumb|Reverse-sexualized by a British morality "Watchdog"]]By classifying any naked picture of a child as morally dangerous "pornography" worthy of [[censorship]], we admit that even prepubescent children's bodies arouse some erotic interest in society. It is indeed a bizarre quirk of Anglo-American orthodoxy, that the only "appropriate" response to depictions of naked or non-normative children is to complain of a "sexual" impropriety. Is this itself not only ''improper'', but prurient and counter to widely-accepted [[Research: Youth sexuality|evidence]]? This intuitive knowledge of children's aesthetic, erotic appeal, attests to how human desire is really an inter-meshing of conflicting and complimenting attractions.

One revealing example of reverse-sexualization comes from a Junior Armani poster (pictured), which was (astonishingly) criticized for sexualizing children back in 2004, leading to an ''upheld'' advertising regulator complaint.<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3706075.stm Armani advert slammed by watchdog]</ref><ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20070323133318/http://www.geocities.com/pca_1978/art/armani/ Geocities page with rundown of controversy]</ref> 74 UK adult complainants had determined the pose to be "sexually inappropriate", as it carried connotations of precocity and agency - something they instinctively saw as unlocking the erotic potential of a child. It was the ''absence'' of "uglification" and [[infantilization]] that confounded the complainants, showing that what we are in fact desperately defending is an ''imposed'' moral standard, and not some sacred natural state. While we might 20 years later (in the era of "sharenting" Instagram Kids) look back and laugh at the ''Armani'' episode, the fact that we do, speaks to the instability of [[Childhood Innocence|childhood innocence]] as a notion.

==External links==

*[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/h-m-advert-banned-school-uniform-b2483076.html H&M advert banned] - Similar in the 2020s.

==See also==

*[[Childhood Innocence]]
*[[Erotic Innocence]]

==References==

[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Child/Minor]]

[[fr:Guide de débat: Inverser la sexualisation]]

Memes and Graphics

2024-02-17T00:29:29Z

JohnHolt: /* Simple/Traditional memes */

__NOTITLE__
{|class="boilerplate" id="pd" style="width:80%; -moz-border-radius: 1em; margin: 0 auto; border:2px solid #b37400; padding:5px; background-color:#ffd8b1;" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="4"
|<center>
[[Image:Memesheader.png|link=]]

This is an organized, ethnological study of [[Wikipedia:Internet meme|memes]] by, and about [[Minor Attracted Person|MAPs]] from various political and apolitical perspectives. While this archive is considered largely complete, we will [[NewgonWiki:Getting involved|consider exceptional and notable examples]] for inclusion. User-generated material continues to be created and uploaded by MAPs and Allies at [https://booru.youjo.love/post/list booru.youjo.love], especially MAP-[[lolicon]] targeted response memes.

In addition to the informational memes on this page, [[research]] graphics can be found at [[Index of Excerpt Gallery Libraries|this index]], or on their respective research pages.

'''Traditional memes have search tags; press control+F on your keyboard and type in a search term.'''

<hr>

Memes, graphics and artwork are presented here for discussion, deliberation and modification. We do not endorse any meme, and have tried to reflect the breadth of material on our subject - some of which may confront conservative stereotypes of the MAP Movement as a project solely of the political left. The [[Newgon|organizational]] logo may be present on material designed or not designed by its members, or members of spin-off groups, as per our [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]]. Some memes mobilize and redeploy narratives usually deemed hostile to [[Minor Attracted Person|MAPs]], since they are designed for use in explicitly hostile venues. Material reproduced here is therefore not to be confused with [[Newgon]]'s editorial.

If you are the verified author of any content featured here, and wish to be credited, please alert strategist@yesmap.net.</center>
|}

==The MAP Flag==
<div style="margin-left: 25px; float: right; width: 300px">__TOC__</div>
The concept underlying the [[MAP Flag]] was seen as early as 2009 and it resurfaced (or was spontaneously recoined) in 2018, gathering widespread social media attention after a campaign by [[NOMAP]]s on Tumblr. It was conservatively redesigned here in 2021.

===Originals===

<Gallery>
File:Yapf2.png|2023 [[Youth Attracted Person|YAP]] Flag
File:MAPflagunitedlarge.svg|2021 MAP Flag presented without anti-alias (i.e. for making an actual flag)
File:Mapflag2018.svg|2018 post-publicity "MAP Flag" - i.e. original Stenna "[[NOMAP]] Flag"
File:Gradient.jpeg|2009 Newgon "Gradient" Flag by Philist: First known use of this, or a related concept
</Gallery>

===MAP Flag variations and memes===

:''See [https://booru.youjo.love/post/list/map_flag/1 Youjo:MAP Flag] for more material''

The MAP Flag has already been used in numerous good-faith social media profiles of MAPs, but also by activists in campaigns that deliberately troll opponents, both in favor of, and in antagonism against MAPs.

<Gallery>
File:Mapmane.png|MAP Maned Lion (Bolt)
File:Revolution.jpg|Revolution, inc MAP Flag - [[Katie Cruz]]. Find this and more graphics at [https://mirror.amapin.love/ The Mirror Project].
File:Fist2.png|Similar fist with blended flag colors - Matthewyoung ([[:Image:Fist2.png|alternative version by Katie Cruz inside]])
File:Resistance.png|Resistance - Cailín Leannán (based on imagery from Irish troubles)
File:Flag.png|Raising the MAP Flag
File:Beeflag.png|Similar, modified by beefriend
File:Mapflag160.jpg|Banksy-style MAP Flag in baloon
File:Masoniccomunist.jpg|The '''M'''asonic '''A'''narcho-communist '''P'''edo Flag (or DDR MAP Flag by Yutlibnow)
File:Libedit.png|MAP Gadsden Flag - Beefriend
Image:FCncb9dWUAMBHOW.png|Pedophile Lives Matter by Strategist
Image:MAPsBased.png|<nowiki>#MAPsAreBased</nowiki> - Strategist
1500x500.jpg|Semi-discreet header background in NOMAP orientation
File:Flagbann.png|Header bg based on flag (Rin)
File:Flower-arch-head.png|Flower Arch Header - beefriend
File:Anglomap flag2.png|AngloNOMAP Flag by Rin ([[:Image:Anglomap flag2.png|alternative AngloMAP version inside]])
File:Bg1.png|Background/desktop
File:Bg2.png|Background/desktop
File:Flagbg2.png|Very subtle bg by beefriend
File:Flagmf.png|Graphic with jumping young people (Mythebe, FST, originally attached to [https://www.freespeechtube.org/v/191Z essay])
File:Mapring.png|Transparent MAP Ring for PFPs ([[:Image:Mapring.png|alternative versions inside]])
File:Mappridesticker.jpg|"MAP Pride Sticker" from @SvbbyPvbby ([[:Image:Mappridesticker.jpg|alternative b&w version inside]])
Dumpy975815219584589834-1.gif|'''GIF:''' Among Us Twerk/Among Us Dumpy-type meme
File:FqppVq8WIAIGlpk.jpg|MAP Flag Anime - many such examples present on [[Pediverse]]
Mapflagfaded.png|Faded 2021 MAP Flag
File:Yesmap.png|2022 "Yesmap Flag" - exclusive [[pro-c]] symbol first published here
File:Mapunion.png|2023 Union MAP Flag concept combining the 2018 and 2021 variants
File:Lgbmap.png|Gay MAP Flag (contrary to popular claims, these have barely been adopted by MAPs)
File:Lesmap.png|[[Intergenerational Lesbianism|Lesbian MAP]] Flag (contrary to popular claims, these have barely been adopted by MAPs. Supposedly, [[Girllove|GL]] and [[Boylove|BL]] versions exist, too)
File:Kanji.png|Kanji (Chinese, Japanese) Love Symbol with [[Adult Attracted Minor|AAM]] flag colors ([[:Image:Kanji.png|alternative MAP versions inside]])
File:Mapaam.png|AAM heart inside a pro-choice MAP Flag (beefriend)
File:MAPFteacher.png|Teacher displays 2018 MAP Flag ([[:File:MAPFteacher.png|PS by beefriend, both versions available]])
File:MAPFteacher20.png|Lecturer displays 2021 MAP Flag ([[:File:MAPFteacher20.png|PS by beefriend, both versions available]])
File:Boymap.png|A small boy carries the MAP Flag (beefriend)
File:Mapkid.png|Small girl with MAP Flag (beefriend)
</Gallery>

==Simple/Traditional memes==

Traditional memes convey a short and salient message in a graphic. MAPs have been memed with (some would say) surprising success, and broadly throughout the internet. This is only a very narrow selection of the material that has been seen from various quarters. For an expanding range of such (user submitted) material see '''[https://booru.youjo.love/post/list booru.youjo.love]'''. Our own [[research]] graphics can be found at '''[[Index of Excerpt Gallery Libraries|this index]]''', or on their respective research pages.

===The MAP Identity===

In addition to graphics and symbols in the lead section of this archive, a number of memes reference the MAP Identity, its development, public perceptions and internal issues.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:The_Revolution_Won't_Be_Televised.png|The Revolution Won't Be Televised - (progress, rallying troops, gloating, woke, pride)
File:Enbymeme.png|Pink hair enby - MAP adaptation (enby, map, valid, identity)
File:Mapally5.png|Be a MAP Ally - (Minor Attracted Person, pedo, hebephile, alliance, asexual, lgbt, gay - [[:File:Mapally5.png|presented in asexual and rainbow flag variations]])
File:Youthpo.png|Youth pornography etc vs statist terminology (nomap, erotica, mocking, language, youthlove, response, reply, csam, csai, troll)
File:Loliconpipeline.png|Pipeline punch lolicon edit (proship, fiction, lolicon, japanese, drawings, art, cunny, hebephilia, pipeline, pedophilia, propaganda, newgon, pediverse)
File:Pridemonth.png|Google LGBT vs MAP Pride Month Trolling Response (google maps, parody, logo)
File:Mapally.jpg|Insufferable MAP Ally (destigmatizer, nomap, coping, map, virped, talking therapy)
File:FHOv8J3XoBIfSQt.jpg|Pedo Yes Chad - "Yes". (based, chads, pedophilia, lolis, cunny, lolipiller, drawings, art, lolicon, cope, seethe, hebephilia)
File:FU0ZTx4XwAAcfGr.jpg|Say what you want about pedophiles (trolling, minor attraction, map, comedy, humor, perv)
File:Glowig.png|Pedo Yes Chad vs Fediverse Glowie (based, chads, pedophilia, fbi, cia, glow, pedi, fedi)
File:Maprigh5.png|MAP Rights AI Anime Protest - (Minor Attracted Person, pedo, hebephile, youth rights, maps, anime, art - [[:File:Maprigh5.png|many versions available]])
</gallery>

===Youth Autonomy/Rights/Liberation===

The autonomy, [[Research: Cognitive ability|capacities]] and liberation of youth are all likely to be crucial battlegrounds for MAPs,, [[Adult Attracted Minor|AAMs]] and their Allies over the next few decades. Another way of describing this, is fighting [[ageism]]. Anti-ageist memes are dotted around our categories, and the following are explicitly anti-ageist.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:FUbrBs9VsAA9vta.jpeg|Parents: I know you more than anyone else > No, you don't (youth, child, parent, autonomy, rights)
File:rapememe.png|How to prevent rape (hypocrisy, body autonomy, minor-adult sex, agency, irrational, coercion, awareness, education, youth, choice, prevention)
File:Scrolloftruth.png|Scroll of truth: Youth autonomy prevents abuse (hypocrisy, body autonomy, agency, irrational, choice, protection, education, youth, prevention)
File:Domino.png|Domino effect - Investigating MAPs to supporting YouthLib (liberation, youth rights, logic, sequential, cause and effect)
</gallery>

===CSA Absurdism and Professional Hypocrisy===

A large number of MAP and MAP-Adjacent memes expose and magnify the absurdism of narratives around [[safeguarding]], abuse, trauma and child protection. In some cases, the hypocritical beliefs of professionals and "experts" are given special treatment.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">

File:Childinnocence.png|Childhood innocence has existed for around 2% of time (history, safeguarding, ethnology, protection)
File:believe.jpg|Believe the Children (consent, abuse, trauma, testimony, trust, children, courtroom, legal, doctor, hypocrisy, medicine - [[:File:believe.jpg|alternative inside re. conversion therapy]])
File:Psychs.png|Child psychologists cat reaction to minors (minor-minor sex, science, rso, registry reform, pseudoscience, victomology)
File:BBoobs.jpg|Babies vs Teens Sucking Boobs (consent, hypocrisy, babies, age, teens, perversion, professor, inappropriate)
File:Main-qimg-12579087b355f31646ea5b1f506cf832-lq.jpg|I, too have lost a kingdom (sex offender, rso, kiddy fiddler, atlantis, athenian, surreal, hysteria, bizarre, molester)
File:denial.jpg|Child protectors believe children are in denial (minor-adult sex, testimony, rationalization, distortion, minors, ignorant, fallacy, mental blocking)
Fhritp.png|A 15 year old is a child, period (mic drop, jamal, teen, menstruation, child, triggered, antis, sjw, feminist, npc, based, comeback, reply, response)
File:Confused2.png|Confused if he should be scarred for life (age, arbitrary, teen, minor-adult sex, trauma, damage, scarred, absurd, crazy)
File:At85scarred.png|85 year old man learns he was abused ([https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35232293/ implausible] reaction) (age, arbitrary, teen, minor-adult sex, elderly, trauma, damage, scarred, absurd, crazy)
File:FJy-YI XIAEWo2U.png|Juvenile offending records vs sex offender records (facepalm, normies, register, registry, rso, law, legal, insane, madness, arbitrary, minors, youth, kids)
File:TouchingGood.png|Good Touches (teacher, education, instruction, learning, quote, swimsuit, protection, sexual harassment, abuse, trauma)
File:Whenispacceptable.png|When is pedophilia acceptable political compass (reply, response, politics, map, pedo, libertarian, authoritarian, left, right)
File:Misopedic.png|Misopedic ageists (antis, chad, swim, children, ageism, moronic, surrealist, girl, cute)
File:randomphotonew.png|Random photo reaction (hysteria, funny, sex fascists, western, crazy, nonwestern, fellatio, suck, abuse, overreaction)
File:WaterGlassSF.png|Glass of Water with optimist, pessimist and Sex Fascists (hysteria, sex fascists, western, indian, nonwestern, abuse, cultural, overreaction - [[:File:WaterGlassSF.png|version with various countries inside]])
File:Unboy.png|United Nations vs Teen Boy (agency, consent, autonomy, international community, bureaucracy, ngo, unicef, ILGA, hypocrisy, feminism, leftism, lizard people, feminazis)
File:18th Birthday Clock hit 12.jpg|Arbitrary nature of age limit (hypocrisy, child, adult, teen, consent, autonomy, americans, agency, age, 18, absurd)
File:SexualOritent.jpg|'Child' is not a Gender (identitarian, sexuality, orientation, identity, validity, sjw, woke, adult, adultism, gender, pedophilia)
File:MAPSchool.png|Public Schools (map, prevalence, pedophilia, hebephilia, response, reply, naive, parents, grooming, access, protection, education - combine with [[Research: Prevalence|prevalence]] info)
File:horse.png|Covering genitals to prevent trauma to baby horses (nudity, bullshit, hysterical, children, graphic, protection, morality, americans, scarred, mental)
File:Childmeme.png|Responding to in-thread misdefinition of child (definition, accuracy, reply, response, children, dumb, hysterical, ageism, dictionary, teens)
File:Brain Development Is Ableist (2).png|Brain Development is Ableist (cognitive capacity and development, mental, minor-adult sex, ability, disabled, ageist, ageism, chauvinism)
File:FJARn kWQAElHfn.jpg|Brain scan - trauma absurdity (consent, minor-adult sex, age, harm, law, arbitrary, absurd, science, pseudoscience, americans, cognitive, westerners)
File:Expressfake.png|Fake Express article (blame, minor-adult sex, age, harm, economy, absurd)
</gallery>

===Responding to [[Anti]]s (and their hypocrisy)===

Some responses to anti-MAP sympathies are also included under "redeploying hostile discourses" and the sections on conservatives, liberals and CSA Absurdism.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:Sexbingo.png|Sex Fascist Bingo: (hypocrisy, religion, consent, cognitive development/capacity, mental, pedophiles, orientation, distortion, fallacy, fallacies, antis, response)
File:Fuckyou.png|Minor attraction is wrong/Fuck you (antis, parents, reply, response, comeback)
File:217 - anti-map flag artist chizu type edit.png|Burning the anti-MAP Flag (antis, haters, reply, response, comeback)
File:Qplamz.png|Antis and parents vs MAPs, Minors collateral (antis, parents, reply, response, comeback, law, secondary harm, crossfire)
File:Woodchippagobrrrrr.jpg|Anti wojak, annotated (antis, trolling, insult, woodchipper, face wall, moronic, dumb, reply, response)
File:Minorcard.png|Minor card, with privileges (underage, puriteen, reply, response, juvenile, twitter, debate, argument, opinion discarded)
File:DontloveCLs.png|Love children but don't love CLs (pedophile, response, reply, comeback, parents)
File:FQU5DnXWYAQkKTI.jpg|Yes Chad baseball bat anti-meme response (gore/blood, violence, consent, attack, validity, reply, response, based, pedo)
File:Yeschadconsenting.png|Islam Yes Chad baseball bat anti-meme consent response (gore/blood, violence, consent, attack, allahu akbar, reply, response, based, pedo)
File:Hateyourself.png|"You should hate yourself" NPC (MAP Flag, cope, seethe, pedo, hebephilia, self concept, ego - [[:File:Hateyourself.png|Chinese translation]] inside)
File:Bluherinnerbattlefield.png|Reaction formation in antis (antis, haters, quote, response, reply, zoophile, self loathing, reaction, projection, denial, psychological)
File:Fbi.jpg|FBI anti-meme response (fed, feelings, offended, hurt, feelz, feds, police report, reply, response, haters, law enforcement, alphabet agencies)
File:Sfascist.gif|'''(GIF)''' Sex fascist clairvoyant "nonce" comeback (paranormal, spirit, reader, fortune, mystic, antis, reply, response, haters, nonce, pedophile, paedo)
File:Orcgif.gif|'''(GIF)''' VAR decision "nonce" comeback (football, soccer, orc, decision, antis, reply, response, haters, nonce, pedophile, paedo)
File:Sponge.png|Stigma on pedophiles ok, no stigma on child wage slavery ok (antis, haters, taboo, stigmas, pedophile, map, spongebob, rights, child labor, consumer, hypocrisy)
File:FPGlITUWYAkbGCV.jpg|Call him a pedo (sheeple, normies, conservatives, ad hominem, defamation, debate, response, reply, facts, social media, twitter logic)
File:269.jpg|Hypocrisy on child protection vs exploitation (sheeple, normies, reply, response, hypocrisy, conformity)
File:FHoD725WYAE3DSC.jpg|The real intentions of "seek therapy" (antis, haters, pedophile, map, mental health, services, rights, seek help, mhp, ableism, illness, validity, nomap, virped, pedmed, hypocrisy)
File:Therapy.png|Telling a MAP to seek therapy (antis, haters, pedophile, map, mental health, services, rights, seek help, mhp, b4uact, degenerate, nomap, virped, pedmed)
File:FGyKNkMXoAI7qbi.jpg|Polarizing topic (born this way, native, immutable, pedophilia, map, hypocrisy, sjws, normies, social justice, woke, lgbt, gay)
File:Orcbrain.jpeg|Pedo hater: Orc (response, reply, antis, red flag, woodchipper, nazi, fascist, groomer, caveman, hansen, monster, zombie, neanderthal, moron)
File:Antis.jpg|Antis creating their own monsters (antis, haters, nomap, pedophile, map, virped, pedmed, hypocrisy)
File:CSAexpert.png|CSA doesn't make you CSA expert (doctor, survivor, expert, arbitrary, science, minor-adult sex, abuse, trauma, fallacy, debate, reply, response)
File:Pedisevil.jpg|Source: Pedophilia is evil (online debate, fallacy, response, reply, chad, facts, social media, twitter logic)
</gallery>

====Responding to Western Hypocrisy====

Criticism of overbearing and sometimes absurd anglo-american moral and legal norms has been a mainstay of MAP memes.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:TechGiants.png|Tech Giants' Media Manipulation re. Child protection (hypocrisy, csa, ngos, trafficking, cultural, western, nonwestern, india, minor-adult sex, journalism, distortion, bias, standpoint)
File:Random.jpg|Western Arrogance with AoC (western, nonwestern, consent, elites, government, age, laws, sex)
File:FJzBuknXEAMnGhh.png|Elites laugh at Sex Offender Registry (elites, politicians, register, registry, rso, law, legal, insane, madness)
File:Doctor.jpg|Playing doctor shouldn't get you put on the registry (register, american, western, registry, rso, law, legal, insane, minors, kids, boy, madness)
File:Beachmeme.png|Volleyball girls - most men would find attractive (hypocrisy, child, adult, teen, consent, americans, age, 18, absurd)
File:FHzQh3LagAAQ9H7.png|Most people's idea of pedophilia (hypocrisy, cuck, child, teen, adult, consent, autonomy, americans, agency, age, 18, pedophile, simping, white knight)
File:Hebetruth.jpg|Most Men are Hebephilic/Ephebophilic, they just can't admit it (hypocrisy, circlejerk, cuck, child, teen, adult, consent, americans, age, 18, pedophile, simping, white knight)
File:Westerners17.png|How Westerners think biology works (western, nonwestern, hypocrisy, child, adult, teen, arousal, attraction, americans, age, 18, absurd)
File:Zombie.png|American/Western standards on children and nudity (innocence, media, tv, movies, children, america, indecent, nipple)
File:Usapedo.jpg|In America, everybody calls each other a pedo (ok pedo, antis, reply, response, defamation, america moment)
File:Changemymind.jpg|SOR a waste of money - response to "change my mind" (ok pedo, registry reform, reply, response, offending, offender)
File:ualization.png|Sexualization with Hijab and Bikini (nudity, children, protection, americans, western, hysteria, psychotic, neurosis, clothing, make-up, hypocrisy, grooming)
File:AnimeBan.png|Anime Ban proposal showing arrogance of the West (anime, lolicon, proship, drawings, art, americans, western, nonwestern, hysteria, hypocrisy, imperialism)
File:Untitled439.png|Dignitaries sit back and enjoy a display by lolis (hypocrisy, pedo, minor attraction, politician, duda, polish, ballet, artistic, dance, trolling)
</gallery>

===Responding to Conservatives (and their hypocrisy)===

Conservative hostility to MAPs has been a feature of many historical cultures, but formed as a visible movement in the 1970s, with campaigns from [[Moral panic|Anita Bryant]], [[Wikipedia:Mary Whitehouse|Mary Whitehouse]] and [[Judianne Densen-Gerber]] among others. The [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/chud "chud"] wojak is a mainstay of conservative depictions in present-day meming, and has been carried over into memes that ridicule conservative [[anti]]-MAPs.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
Chudbehavior.png|Chud behavior (trolling, pedo hunters, antis, kill all pedos, humor, ridicule, woodchipper)
File:Norfc.png|Norf FC nonce series (refers to British working class culture) (chud, hunter, paedo, football, soccer, fan - [[:File:Norfc.png|series inside]])
File:Catboy.jpg|Chudjak therapy (trolling, chud, freudian, antis, kill all pedos, humor, catboy, tiktok, ridicule, woodchipper)
File:Yessss.png|"Yes" to chud with infertile wife. (based, chads, pedophilia, lolis, cunny, lolipiller, cope, seethe, copium, hebephilia)
File:Groomer86.jpg|Grooming...according to who? (hypocrisy, groomer, conservatives, trans, bodily autonomy, choice, lgbt)
File:Slut2.png|Sex Fascists through the ages (hypocrisy, gay, lgbt, history, historical, slut shaming, female, modesty, prudery)
File:Averagepedophobe.jpg|Pedo chad vs Pedophobe conspiracy theorist (cunny, trolling, map, pedo, hebephile, lolis, jew, dads against predators, guns)
File:378.jpg|/pol/ hypocrisy on drawn child erotica (normies, conservatives, woodchipper, reply, response, hypocrisy, lolicon, fiction, proship, lolbertarian, redpill, bluepill, censorship, canceled)
File:FQUw6PLXoA48YBF.jpg|Conservatives are for free speech, but not for MAPs (sheeple, normies, conservatives, woodchipper, reply, response, hypocrisy, liberals, libertarian, lolbertarian, red blue pill, censorship, canceled)
File:matthew.png|St Nicholas/Matthew Christian trigger meme (reply, response, gay, boys, maps, trigger, bait, troll, santa claus, christmas, christian, religion)
</gallery>

====Progress and Normalization====

A common claim of conservative [[anti]]-MAPs is that we are seeing a covert agenda of "pedophile [[MAPocalypse|normalization"]]. While this optimistic outlook does not match the lived experience of most MAPs, we have seen memes and graphics that play with the idea by situating MAPs within the broader liberal paradigm of "social progress", or unapologetically attempt to normalize attraction to minors.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:747.jpg|Slippery slope extended (gay, lgbtq, sjw, woke, based, progressive, homo, incrementalism, maga, groomer, boomer, response, reply)
File:075.jpg|We'll never let you... (gay, lgbtq, sjw, woke, based, progressive, homo, incrementalism, women, civil, maga, groomer, boomer, response, reply)
File:Alok.jpg|Alok Vaid-Menon Quote: "little girls are also kinky" (girls, innocence, kink, trigger, bait, conservatives, americans, queer, children, trans, straight, purity, modesty, innocent, pure)
File:Progress.png|That's how progress works (trolling, surreal, humor, ridicule, progressive)
File:Ourcrazyworld.jpg|Our Crazy World (cartoon, map, progress, gay, civil rights, humor, mapocalypse, normalization)
File:Cantorincludep.png|James Cantor - Add P to alphabet (sexuality, pedophilia, include the p, minor attraction, lgbt, gay, queer, maps, identitarian, researcher, quote, trigger/bait)
File:FHeCpC5XIAkE9Xx.jpg|Offensively realistic take on an age-gap relationship (girl, teen, maps, minor-adult sex, age gap, love, taboo, bait, troll)
File:Ipceconf.png|[[Ipce]] power point presentation, girl at podium (hebephilia, pedo, minor attraction, science, trolling)
File:Lolihebe.jpg|Hebe lolis w/ table showing response levels (graph, table, study, sexual arousal, troll, bait, attraction, age, pedophilia, hebephilia, girls, plethysmograph - this is adapted from the notorious [[:File:Halletal.jpg|fake Russian infomeme]])
File:Groomer.png|Grooming a girl with better-known MAP infomemes (groomer, troll, bait, children, ok groomer, abuser, kinsey, study, indoctrination - this meme refers to a [[:File:Adultadult2.png|Kinsey data meme]], and there is also an [[:File:Groomer.png|alt version referring to the adjacent russian meme]])
File:FXtPN01aQAEPj6C.jpg|Response to attractive girl, in denial (hypocrisy, pedo, minor attraction, trolling)
File:Ilovelolis.png|I love Lolis Chad (cunny, trolling, map, pedo, hebephile)
File:Shareifyoulovekids.jpg|Share if you love kids (trolling, minor attraction, map, aam)
</gallery>

===Responding to Liberals/Leftists (and their hypocrisy)===

Liberal and Leftist points of view are varied on the topic of MAPs, but tend to range from mild disapproval, thru denial, to silenced embarrassment in the face of hearty conservative uproar. Often, MAPs (who have benefitted from collaboration with gay leftist movements in the past) are left by would-be allies to a fate determined solely by political optics. Thus, liberal and leftist discourses on MAPs sometimes refer to the questionable concept of social ''(in)validity'', something the LGBT section also addresses.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:Conversiontherapy.png|LGBT vs MAP conversion therapy - liberal [[pro-recovery]] response (pedophile, response, reply, comeback, map, lib, medical, hypocrisy, coping, mentally ill, therapy, seek help, gay, lgbt)
File:Abortionrape.png|Abortion vs Rape - Liberal Hypocrisy (abortion, religion, conservative, liberal, consent, ageism, youth, rights, adult)
File:FPXhdRSX0AEVeQ2.jpg|Anarchist Chads on Pedophilia in Queer Theory (normie, npc, conservatives, anarchism, queer, pedophilia, theory, dumb, homophobia, bigot)
File:Femgirl.png|Fembot vs Teen Girl (agency, consent, autonomy, services, protection, child, teen, shock, disgust, hypocrisy, feminism, leftism, radfem, feminazi)
File:Ussraoc.png|Inconvenient USSR Age of Consent (trolling, russia, anarchist, anarcho communist, communism, commie, marxist)
File:Soyjakparty.png|From soyjak.party (liberal, leftist, lgbt, coom, soy, gay, progress, pride, MAPs, mapphobia)
</gallery>

====Responding to the LGBT Lobby (and its hypocrisy)====

[[Validity Policing]] and hypocrisy from the LGBT Lobby is a common experience of online MAPs. This follows expedient political maneuvres in the 1980s and 90s, in which the LGBT Lobby [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity|responded to conservative anti-MAP scare campaigns]] by distancing MAPs. See also, some of the responses to Liberals.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:Lgbgender.png|LGBT Community can't move beyond trans issues on youth autonomy (lgbt, gay, trans, nonbinary, groomer, lgbtq, gender, youth, autonomy)
File:Gays-phobes.png|Gay hypocrisy re whataboutism over argument from nature/history (hypocrisy, gay, lgbt, irrational, slavery, barbaric, anger, nature, animals, historical, anthropological, homophobes, greece, pederasty)
File:Valpol.png|The Validity Police (lgbt, gay, pride, hypocrisy, policing, lgbtq, age appropriate, development - [[:File:Valpol.png|alternative versions inc. Transage inside]])
File:Antibadguy.png|Anti Bad Guy Squad (hypocrisy, gay, lgbtq, sjw, woke, invalid, validity, homo - ([[:File:Antibadguy.png|no-color version inside]]))
File:Mapgymnastics.png|MAP vs LGBT Mental Gymnastics (reply, response, rationalization, logic, fallacy, npc, gay, queer, sjw, argument, pedophile, minor-attracted)
File:Sheep copy.png|People whose definition of "Queer" is "anything acceptable" (reply, response, bait, queer, sjw, npc, woke, identitarian, identity, midwits, pedophilia, maps, gay rights, lgbt, normies - ([[:File:Sheep copy.png|series inside]]))
</gallery>

===Responding to [[Lolicon]]s (and their hypocrisy)===

While some find it tiring, a [[Lolicon-MAP Equivalence Debate]] is ongoing throughout civilian political circles on social media. The following memes typify the MAP response to Western Lolicons who mobilize [[Proship|shipping]] discourse to deny they are attracted to youth.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:LoliMeme.jpg|Pointing to the hypocrisy of Lolicons (proship, fiction, child porn, lolicon, japanese, drawings, art, hypocrisy, pedophilia, cope, hebephilia - [[:File:LoliMeme.jpg|alternative inside re. plethysmograph test]])
File:FHQcxJbUUAADrQH.jpg|Bell curve on lolicon (proship, fiction, child porn, lolicon, japanese, npc, normie, midwit, drawings, art, cope, cognitive development, ability, capacity, brain, IQ, age, pedophilia, hebephilia - [[:File:FHQcxJbUUAADrQH.jpg|alternative versions]], inc re. mental capacity and elite pedophilia inside)
File:Fqk0qqmXgAgRp4j.jpg|Caricature of ironic lolicons (proship, fiction, child porn, lolicon, japanese, drawings, art, hypocrisy, pedophilia, trannies, trans, troon)
File:Cunnycave.png|Cunny cave (lolicons, ironic, proship, fiction, porn, drawings, art, pedophilia, hebephilia, denial)
File:117 - artist chicken thoughts artist chizu bird cracker ironic lolicon type comic edit.png|Chizu Lolicon "bird cracker edit" (lolicons, ironic, proship, fiction, porn, drawings, art, japanese, antis, pedophilia, hebephilia, denial)
File:FJffEqJXMAA2mnj.jpg|Pedos vs Lolicons (proship, fiction, child porn, lolicon, japanese, doctor, drawings, art, chad, cope, hypocrisy, pedophilia, hebephilia)
File:549iugbjkn34908r54.png|Algorithmic programmed response in lolicon and normie npc (proship, fiction, child porn, lolicon, japanese, drawings, art, cope, hypocrisy, ironics, pedophilia, hebephilia)
</gallery>

===Redeploying hostile discourses===

A considerable part of online MAP discourse centers on the redeployment of predominant elitist, authoritarian and extremist narratives sometimes used to attack MAPs. While this has led to the embarrassment and triggering of [[anti]]s on social media, it is worth noting that some members of the community are ethically opposed to the idea of adopting problematic ideas inconsistent with personal, theoretical conceptions of social justice. These concerns have also been voiced in situations where MAPs enter "enemy territory" and unironically imitate disruptive/contrarian members of another group, such as [[Wikipedia:Groypers|4Chan Groypers]].

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:Anti.png|Purposeful and smart Pedophiles vs Antis (pedos, pedophiles, maps, history, based, antis, haters, sex fascists, troll, bait)
File:Pedonoblememe.jpg|Pedophile/NOMAP of noble grace (reply, response, pedmed, virped, acnomap, virtuous, minor-attracted, map, virtue, antis, moron, idiot, cuck, asshole)
File:FgX2SHUUAAAL3Ij.jpg|Historical "pedophiles" (using broader popular definition) (pedos, pedophiles, maps, history, famous, wilde, response, troll, bait)
File:Uspepe.png|Pepe Wikipedia meme intended for use on 4Chan - Feminism and [[Age of Consent]] reformism (groyper, redpill, 4chan, puritan, reformism, frog)
File:Patriot4.png|Response meme re. PatriotWave's famous Kill Your Local Pedophile memes and bumper stickers etc - (guns, police, agecuck, conservative, reply, violent, vigilante, trolling, militia - [[:File:Patriot4.png|a few more variations inside]])
File:Sexfash.jpg|Cure for sex fascism (ok pedo, antis, fascist, reply, response, bullet, gun)
</gallery>

===When MAPs met StoneToss===

:''See [https://booru.youjo.love/post/list/artist%3Astonetoss/1 Youjo:StoneToss] for more material''

Much has been [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/StoneToss written] (and [https://web.archive.org/web/20210729193213/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Stonetoss unwritten]) about the controversial online political cartoonist, StoneToss. While our [[:File:Circumcision-surgery-stonetoss-comic.png|series file]] keeps track of various originals and knock-offs (originality can be [https://stonetoss.com/ verified] at the comic's site), a few examples follow. It should be noted that some members of the community found the very idea of copying StoneToss as a style problematic and offensive, due to the views of its creator.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:Cunneh.png|Fake Stonetoss - Legalize cunny (libertarian, marijuana, hemp, hashish, cannabis, 420, child porn, cunny, loli, erotica, internet)
File:FX n5peVUAENkB3.png|Stonetoss.com debuts the [[MAP Flag]] and [[Pedophobia|Pedovan]] (lgbt, gay, pride, degeneracy, groomer, lgbtq activism, predator, free candy)
File:Circumcision-surgery-stonetoss-comic.png|Stonetoss.com - Leonardo Di Caprio dating, LGBT response (lgbt, gay, pride, hypocrisy, sjw, cognitive capacity, brain development, consent, lgbtq activism, age appropriate - [[:File:Circumcision-surgery-stonetoss-comic.png|more such comics inside]])
File:170 - artist chizu artist stonetoss format stonetoss edit.png|Stonetoss: Chizu ''Lolicons are Pedophiles'' edit (lolicons, ironic, proship, fiction, porn, drawings, art, japanese, antis, pedophilia, hebephilia, denial)
</gallery>

===Quotes and Miscellany===

The below memes can be applied to the debates covered on this page, and many more besides.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:Hwwouldyoulike.jpg|How would you like your state surveillance wrapped? (sheeple, normies, conservatives, liberals, online, reply, response, hypocrisy, lolbertarian, censorship, canceled)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws (data protection law, technology, surveillance, ignorance, governments, cynical, hidden, conspiracy, horse, internet, protect)
File:Cancel Culture.png|Cancel culture: Then vs now (sheeple, normies, conservatives, history, 1950s, liberals, red blue pill, censorship, canceled)
File:Censorshipmartin.png|George R. R. Martin: What Censorship tells us (quote, canceled, red blue pill, censor, liberal, conservative, politics, media, free speech, freedom)
File:It is easier to fool people.jpg|[[Mark Twain]]: It's easier to fool people... (sheeple, normies, quote, denial, psychological, mechanism, mental, conformity, debate, social media, facts and feelings)
File:Prostitution- giving orgasms shouldn't be a crime.jpg|George Carlin - on Prostitution (selling sex, quote, morality, rational, sex work, prude, conservative, debate, bias, sheeple, normies)
File:Better Science.jpg|What does refute science? (research, facts, science, social media, debate, bias, sheeple, religion, feelings, normies)
File:Trust the Scientists.jpg|Trust scientists rather than randoms (warning, research, facts, science, social media, twittards, debate, bias, sheeple, normies)
File:Science vs Social Media.jpg|Real science vs Social Media "science" (warning, research, facts, distorted, media, education, debate, bias, sheeple, normies)
File:Conformity.png|Conformity hazard (warning, research, facts, debate, feelings, sheeple, normies)
File:204 - tagme.png|Effects of ad hom argument strategy (debate, personal, logic, unintended, minority, sheeple, normies)
File:283 - tagme.jpg|Sampling bias, effect on outcomes (statistics, rational, facts, science, logic, npc, sheeple, normies)
File:FUv8RZDWIAcd6wt.jpg|Reasonable people in the minority (warning, rational, facts, debate, bias, social media, feelings, sheeple, normies)
File:FcxaCdKX0AEhopp.jpg||Drew Keys Quote: Smear Campaigns (mental instability, sjw attack, social media, debate, reply, twittard, response)
File:Baseddep.jpg|Based department calling! (based, kek, pepe, compliment, reply, response)
</gallery>

==Informational memes==

<gallery mode=packed heights=270px style="text-align:left">
File:Minorsbeware.png|Minors Beware (red flags): (antis, warning, minors, consent, advice, youth, guide)
File:22 - anti-map flag artist drugar educational sources.png|Drugar literacy campaign for antis (minor-adult sex, academia, reading, knowledge, trolling, research, literature, study, facts)
File:Pandfeminism.png|Pedophilia and Feminism (first wave, second wave, third wave, womens, youth rights, judith butler)
File:The Truth About 'CP'(5).png|What you need to know about [[Child Pornography]] (kp, cp, kiddy, porn, porno, erotica, photographs, crime, csam, kinderporno, csai, lolita - [[:File:The Truth About 'CP'(5).png|Chinese translation inside]])
File:Kaaaren.png|Karen confronts CP (kp, cp, kiddy, porn, porno, erotica, photographs, crime, csam, kinderporno, csai, lolita, pornography, research, quotes - [[:File:Kaaaren.png|Italian translation inside]])
File:Ncmec.png|NCMEC [[Iatrogenesis]] (kp, cp, kiddy, porn, porno, erotica, photographs, crime, csam, kinderporno, csai, lolita, pornography, research, secondary harm, quotes)
File:Scapegoat.png|MAP Scapegoat - compared with Jews, Witches (gays, lgbt, blacks, jew, pedophilia, minor attraction, stereotyping, maps, status, persecution, bogeyman, pariah, witchhunt - [[:File:Scapegoat.png|series inside]])
File:Truthaboutm.jpg|Truth about MAPs (addresses myths) (sexuality, pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia, nepiophilia, maps, accuracy, nomap, pedmed, virped, acnomap, facts, stigma, destigmatization [[:File:Truthaboutm.jpg|Chinese translation in file]])
File:MDEdge.png|MDEdge definition of minor-attraction (sexuality, pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia, nepiophilia, maps, definition, accuracy, nomap, pedmed, virped, acnomap, stigma, destigmatization)
File:Chronorange.png|Seto definition of minor-attractions and chronophilias (sexuality, pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia, nepiophilia, maps, definition, accuracy, nomap, pedmed, virped, acnomap, stigma, destigmatization)
File:Peddef.png|Simple response to misdefinition of p(a)edophilia (sexuality, hebephilia, pedophilia, minor attraction, definition, dictionary, psychology, accuracy)
File:The CSA-Industry.png|CSA Industrial Complex: Criminalization (Social-Economic Model) (sociology, politics, institutions, establishment, elites, money, profit, complex, relationship, chart, medicine, influence, organization)
File:The CSA-Industrial Complex.png|CSA Industrial Cycle (Social-Economic Model) (sociology, politics, institutions, elites, money, profit, establishment, complex, relationship, chart, diagram, influence, organization)
File:CSA Is Similar(1).png|CSA similarities to treatment of Homosexuals (gay history, treatments, conversion, survivors, therapy, apa, psychology, therapist)
File:Socio.png|Sociopolitical Model: Marginialization of Sexual Minorities (maps, sociology, politics, pariah, newgon, othering, bipartisan, ostracism, social, class)
File:Pseudo-e-t.png|Pseudoexclusive Teleiophilia (a new concept) (sexuality, hebephilia, pedophilia, minor attraction, seto, freund, newgon, science, psychology, trigger/bait)
File:The Myth of “Pedophilia OCD” (800 × 1000 px).png|"[[Pedophilia OCD]]" Debunk (sexuality, pocd, hebephilia, pedophilia, minor attraction, fake illness, shrinks, obsessive compulsive, mental, health, newgon, arousal, science, psychology, cope)
File:Primary.png|Most Child Rape is perpetrated by non-pedophiles (sexuality, pedophilia, assault, minor attraction, maps, crime, nomap, pedmed, virped, acnomap, stigma, destigmatization)
File:ACMAPWEAKNES.png|Weaknesses of an exclusive ACNOMAP/Medicalist agenda (pedmed, virpeds, pedophilia, minor attraction, maps, strategy, destigmatization)
File:Prevalence.jpg|Pedophilia [[Research: Prevalence|prevalence]] card, no link (sexuality, pedophilia, common, research, maps, minor-attraction, facts, stats, statistics, numbers)
File:Tac.png|Toxic Age Chauvinism (ageism, ableism, youth lib, youth rights, cognitive ability, research, quote, mental, teen brain)
File:Secoharm.png|Secondary Harm explainer (study, academia, secondary, trauma, harm, quote, paper, report, outcomes, csa, minor-adult sex - [[:File:SecNewColor.png|see full series]])
File:patterns45.png|Similar patterns between homosexuality and pedophilia (parrelel, similar, comparison, analogy, minor attraction, gay, queer, lgbt, western, nonwestern, animals, tribal, anthropological, cultural)
File:Pedodisorder2.png|Lecter: Pedophilic Disorder distinction ("inborn" is disputable, and the author has since evolved a less medicalist stance but the distinction is important) (sexuality, pedmed, virped, acnomap, pedophilia, minor attraction, native, science, psychology, innate, immutable, disorder, dsm)
File:Prevent.png|Prevent MAPs from accessing minors? Why not prevent physical abuse survivors while we are at it? (sexuality, neglect, hebephilia, risk, access, pedophilia, minor attraction, seto, freund, science, psychology)
B4u-mapflag.jpg|Suicide Stats (MAPs) (sexuality, pedophilia, minor attraction, death, pedmed, virped, nomap, acnomap, depression, despair, psychology, research, B4U-Act, standpoint - [[:File:B4CnEdit.png|Chinese translation]])
File:Thoughtsuppresion.png|Thought Suppression take (MAP Resources) (psychology, pedophilia, minor attraction, maps, pedmed, virped, nomap, acnomap, depression, despair, psychology, research)
File:Blackmales.png|Logic of antis vs crime statistics: Put a curfew on Black Men (sexuality, african american, hebephilia, risk, access, pedophilia, minor attraction, seto, science, psychology)
File:Mentaldisorder.png|"Mental disorders" according to psychiatry (sexuality, hebephilia, disorder, psychiatry, trans, illness, history, pedophilia, minor attraction, mental, science, psychology, analogy, similar)
File:Academia-controversy.jpg|What people's insistence on getting offended by academics proves (academia, hysteria, kershnar, controversy, offence, triggered, csa, science, lies, defense mechanism, projection, denial, walker, psychology, abuse, philosophy)
File:Lievreorthodoxy.png|Dan Lievre (Newgon Founder): Social Justice Orthodoxy makes no sense on MAPs (useful when dealing with charges that the MAP Movement is "woke". Tags: sexuality, hebephilia, validity, woke, quote, sjw, history, social theory, pedophilia, minor attraction, identitarianism, politics)
File:animalHebe1.png|Intergenerational sex among Primates with citation (animals, study, practise, rind/yuill, minor-adult sex, academic, observation, science, monkeys, species, learning)
File:Bonobos.png|[[Research: Intergenerational Sexual Behaviors in Animals|Bonobo Juveniles/infants]] enjoying sex play (animals, study, academic, practise, minor-adult sex, observation, science, monkeys, species, learning)
File:BonoHuman.png|Human-Bonobo-Chimp finer comparison (animals, cognitive capacity, capability, minor-adult sex, science, animals, monkeys, species, learning)
File:Karen-innocence.png|A Karen confronts [[Debate Guide: Childhood innocence|childhood innocence]] (quote, study, academia, innocent, teens, children, crazy, hysteria, boomers, facebook)
File:Rind.jpg|20+ year-old [[Rind et al|Rind]] Paradox (see more in [[Research]] and the [[Index of Excerpt Gallery Libraries|excerpt graphics]]) (study, academia, controversy, unanswered, paper, report, trauma, harm, outcomes, csa, minor-adult sex)
SRcombined.png|Statutory rape is a legal fiction (law, minor-adult sex, hysteria, madness, arbitrary, victim, victimless, consensual, crime)
File:StatDeath.png|Statutory Death parody (law, minor-adult sex, courtroom, funny, hysteria, madness, judge judy, arbitrary, victim, victimless, consensual, crime)
File:ChadVsSoy.jpg|CunnyChad vs Reddit Soyjak Mod (child-adult sex, based, minor-adult sex, academia, bruce rind, comparison, csa, data, analysis, quant, consenting, voluntary)
File:Adultadult2.png|Kinsey Data ([[:File:Adultadult2.png|series inside]]) (research, minor-adult sex, academia, bruce rind, comparison, csa, data, analysis, quant, child, consenting, voluntary)
File:Lesbians.png|Modern Feminists disowning Lesbian History (Kinsey) (research, minor-adult sex, academia, bruce rind, comparison, csa, data, analysis, quant, child, consenting, voluntary)
File:Rind23.png|Rind 2023 data. (research, minor-adult sex, academia, bruce rind, comparison, csa, data, analysis, quant, child, consenting, voluntary)
File:Zarade.jpg|LGBT Outcomes: "Listen to LGBT Youth" For the papers by Sonya Arreola, Alex Carballo-Diéguez and Jessica Stanley, see DOI: 10.1080/00224490802204431, DOI: 10.1007/s10508-011-9748-y and DOI: 10.1080/00224490409552245 respectively. (research, minor-adult sex, academia, lgbt, comparison, gay, youth, analysis, data, quant, child, consenting, voluntary)
File:Dolphin2.png|Adult-juvenile sex among Dolphins (animals, minor-adult sex, juvenile, similar, analogy, species, science, observation)
File:Endthecycle.png|[[Debate Guide: Cyclical paternalism|Cyclical paternalism]] explainer (consent, minor-adult sex, knowledge, ignorance, innocence, self fulfilling prophecy, paternalism, adultism, ageism, adverse consequence - [[:File:Endthecycle.png|Italian translation inside]])
File:Self-fulfilling.png|Self-fulfilling prophecy of harm (minor-adult sex, minor-minor sex, csa, damage, kids, children, education, teach, indoctrination, americans, secondary harm - [[:File:Self-fulfilling.png|alternative inside]])
File:Grooming2.png|[[Grooming]] is circular logic (fallacy, ok groomer, abuse, csa, language, minor-adult sex, harm, trauma, damage)
File:GroomingReworked.png|Grooming vs Courtship (fallacy, ok groomer, abuse, hypocrisy, csa, language, minor-adult sex, harm, manipulation, trauma, media, damage)
File:Groomingncmec.png|Analysis of NCMEC/Lanning Report pathologizing banality (grooming, feds, fbi, ncmec, minor-adult sex, law, americans)
File:Legalityreality.jpg|Legal consent does not equal reality (rape, statutory, abuse, csa, language, minor-adult sex, laws, consent, rso)
File:trickery.png|Wordplay: what they really mean (rape, statutory, abuse, csa, language, minor-adult sex, consent, voluntary, harm, trauma, damage)
File:Nonfic.png|Nonfiction for MAPs (seen on [[pediverse]]) (reading, research, academia, minor attracted person, minor-adult sex, levine, brongersma, positive memories, trauma)
</gallery>

==Larger flyers==

<gallery mode=packed heights=400px style="text-align:left">
File:Lilystory.png|Narrative explaining the nonsense/unnatural concept of a consenting age (consent, minor-adult sex, law, legal, arbitrary, madness)
File:ConsentExamples.png|Consent explained with examples (consent, statutory, legal construct, minor-adult sex, law, arbitrary, madness, nonwestern - [[:File:ConsentExamples.png|Italian translation inside]])
File:AoCWestern.png|Age of Consent Flyer - Western examples (consent, purity, girls, minor-adult sex, law, legal, arbitrary, madness, nonwestern, western - [[:File:AoCWestern.png|Indian version inside]])
File:SecNewColor.png|Iatrogenic harm - comparison with other taboos (study, academia, secondary, trauma, harm, quote, paper, report, outcomes, csa, minor-adult sex - [[:File:SecNewColor.png|series inside]])
File:AMCleftist.jpg|Anti-MAP Crap (maps, fallacies, arguments refuted, antis, sex fascists, reply, response, minor attracted people)
File:Leftistpamphlet.png|Newgon-branded Pamphlet (from down the index) in Leftist Meme Style (maps, facts, accuracy, leaflet, propaganda, information, minor attracted people)

</gallery>

==Logical Fallacies series==

See our [[Debate Guide: Logical fallacies and intergenerational sexuality|Debate Guide]] article on the subject.

<gallery mode=packed heights=200px style="text-align:left">
File:Ad Populum.png|Ad Populum - Appeal to popularity (ad pop)
File:Ad Hominem.png|Ad Hominem - Personal attack (ad hom, ok pedo, ok groomer)
File:Authority Appeal.png|Appeal to authority
File:Equivocation.png|Equivocation - misleading with terminology (e.g. rape)
File:Genetic Fallacy.png|Genetic Fallacy
File:Guilt By Association.png|Guilt by association
File:Hasty Generalization.png|Hasty Generalization
File:Novelity Appeal.png|Appeal to novelty
File:Special Pleading 2 .png|Special pleading
File:Style Over Substance.png|Style over substance (tone)
File:Strawman.png|Strawman argument (raping babies argument)
File:Ad Nauseum 2.png|Ad Nauseum
</gallery>

==Positive memories==

Stories about positive memories from verified sources.

{{Template:EGLPM}}

==Anti-MAPs who were caught with their pants down==

There exist numerous examples of stridently anti-pedophile men, who themselves ended up being exposed for their [[Pedophilia|"pedophilic"]] and [[Hebephilia|"hebephilic"]] inclinations. These are sometimes used in online banter, and by [[MAP Movement|activists]].

{{Template:APSO}}

==Anti memes==

These memes have been produced by [[anti]]s (usually on Twitter or Facebook). You can use these memes to take advantage of hate and anger - spreading awareness of MAPs. Setting up an account as a hostile anti might actually be a way of ''avoiding'' censorship on certain platforms. It also gives us control over how the debate is "framed".

<gallery mode=packed heights=270px style="text-align:left">
File:Pedoisland.png|Pedophile Island
File:Pedonorm.png|Normalizing Pedophiles
File:GaG.png|[[Gays Against Groomers]]
File:BLACKPROP1.png|Attacks the shift in language, mentions Newgon
File:BLACKPROP2.png|Mentions [[Minor Attracted Person]] euphemism and researchers
File:AMERIPROP.png|Mentions [[Minor Attracted Person]] euphemism and cultural background
File:FPSIc0qWUAA-Y60.jpg|Very smart meme using trans bodily autonomy vs freedom of youth to have sexual experiences
File:Blackprop1.jpg|The plan to legalize
File:Paedoagends.jpg|The Paedophile agenda - accuses LGBT
File:Hebepedo.png|Hebephile/Pedophile distinction irrelevant to antis
File:FQo-G4gUcAI-kI7.jpg|OK Groomer
File:Antigroom.jpg|Antigroom Aktion
File:Gunishment.gif|'''(GIF)''' They don't deserve punishment, they deserve GUNISHMENT!
File:Ladypee.jpg|Have you never seen a LADY pee?!
File:1648647292071.jpg|And then one day, people voted for Hitler
File:1676641606100796.png|Fact checking the fact checkers
File:1659055468592612.jpg|LGBT groomers, therapist, freudian
File:Genderpop.png|Conservatives think kids are being made to suck she-dick (or something like that)
File:Cringe.png|LGBT agenda is the devil
File:Secretcodes.png|Pronouns are basically pedophilia code
File:Normaliz.jpg|Shared by Dr David Cartland on Twitter
</gallery>

==Basic material==

<gallery>
File:Iliveagain.jpg|By Iliveagain ([[Pediverse|fediverse]])
File:HJ.png|By HandsomeJack
File:Bearbase.png|Basic Pedobear art (transparent surround)
Pbear.png|Brown Pedobear (transparent surround)
File:Untitled-1.png|Alternative [[Virtuous Pedophiles|Virped]] Logo ([[:File:Untitled-1.png|alternative versions]] inside)
</gallery>

==Pamphlets==

Our pamphlet, '''"Minor-Attracted People (MAPs), Just the facts"''', is intended to look like plain and dowdy propaganda (until you look inside). Previews and PDF available. You may have to experiment with "fitting to page width" or "scaling" to get the folds to go bang down the center, but we have done most of the work for you.

<Gallery>
File:Pamphletmapscale.png|Front
File:Pamphletmapscale2.png|Back
</Gallery>

'''[[Media:Pamphletmapscale.pdf|Download full PDF]]'''

===Pamphleteering===

We have a short [[Pamphleteering|guide on pamphleting]], and some of our older material is still archived there. Hopefully, this will be an inspiration for future efforts, or reworking of old material.

==Media flyers==

These are small publications that can be emailed to target groups, such as media organizations, or sent to their social media accounts.

*[[Media:ContentDemo.pdf|Info Pack (2022) for media organizations]] - selling the controversy re minor-adult sex

==Notes==

[[Category:Promotional Media]]

File:Expressfake.png

2024-02-17T00:27:55Z

JohnHolt: