https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Debate_Guide%3A_Legal_pragmatismDebate Guide: Legal pragmatism - Revision history2026-04-30T22:44:17ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.45.3https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=28923&oldid=prevThe Admins at 20:40, 25 August 20242024-08-25T20:40:26Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><blockquote><font color="green">'''''A legal age provides a <u>fine line in the sand</u>, where society needs it. In court, objective, simple legislation cuts out the need for subjective interpretations, which can be easily manipulated by defense lawyers. A few unsafe, or unfair convictions are no loss, when it allows us to show <u>zero tolerance to the predators</u>.'''''</font></blockquote></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><blockquote><font color="green">'''''A legal age provides a <u>fine line in the sand</u>, where society needs it. In court, objective, simple legislation cuts out the need for subjective interpretations, which can be easily manipulated by defense lawyers. A few unsafe, or unfair convictions are no loss, when it allows us to show <u>zero tolerance to the predators</u>.'''''</font></blockquote></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">In trying to draw a line in the sand, we bury our head in it. </ins>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy, chauvinistic, moralistic generational assumptions about "consensual crime", such as believing male-student relationships with female teachers are invariably the "only exceptions to the rule". Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only be used to judge lived experiences ''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy, chauvinistic, moralistic generational assumptions about "consensual crime", such as believing male-student relationships with female teachers are invariably the "only exceptions to the rule". Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only be used to judge lived experiences ''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td></tr>
</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=26056&oldid=prevThe Admins at 02:10, 12 May 20242024-05-12T02:10:27Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[File:Balancescale.jpg|thumb|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Comparing </del>present Age of Consent laws to hypothetical alternatives <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">is ultimately a process of comparing </del>the relative importance of various subjective claims, and then deciding what (if any) alternative might be feasible, or cost-effective.]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[File:Balancescale.jpg|thumb|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">To compare </ins>present Age of Consent laws to hypothetical alternatives<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, we are essentially justifying </ins>the relative importance of various subjective claims, and then deciding what (if any) alternative might be feasible, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ethical, evidence-based </ins>or cost-effective.]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of consensual crime and unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of consensual crime and unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.</div></td></tr>
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</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=25597&oldid=prevThe Admins at 15:16, 20 April 20242024-04-20T15:16:40Z<p></p>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[File:Balancescale.jpg|thumb|Comparing present Age of Consent laws to hypothetical alternatives is ultimately a process of comparing the relative importance of various subjective claims, and then deciding what (if any) alternative might be feasible, or cost-effective.]]</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of consensual crime and unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of consensual crime and unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.</div></td></tr>
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</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=25039&oldid=prevThe Admins at 21:23, 3 April 20242024-04-03T21:23:43Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:23, 3 April 2024</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about unseen harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about unseen harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==See also==</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*[[Debate Guide: Problems with the Age of Consent]]</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td></tr>
</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=25032&oldid=prevThe Admins at 18:24, 3 April 20242024-04-03T18:24:32Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 18:24, 3 April 2024</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy, chauvinistic, moralistic generational assumptions about "consensual crime", such as believing male-student relationships with female teachers are invariably the "only exceptions to the rule". Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only judge lived experiences ''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy, chauvinistic, moralistic generational assumptions about "consensual crime", such as believing male-student relationships with female teachers are invariably the "only exceptions to the rule". Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">be used to </ins>judge lived experiences ''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about unseen harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about unseen harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td></tr>
</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=25031&oldid=prevThe Admins at 18:22, 3 April 20242024-04-03T18:22:43Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
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<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 18:22, 3 April 2024</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l7">Line 7:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 7:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy, chauvinistic, moralistic generational assumptions about "consensual crime", such as believing male-student relationships with female teachers are invariably the "only exceptions to the rule". Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only judge lived experiences ''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy, chauvinistic, moralistic generational assumptions about "consensual crime", such as believing male-student relationships with female teachers are invariably the "only exceptions to the rule". Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only judge lived experiences ''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">further </del>harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">unseen </ins>harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td></tr>
</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=25030&oldid=prevThe Admins at 18:22, 3 April 20242024-04-03T18:22:19Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
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<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 18:22, 3 April 2024</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l5">Line 5:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy, chauvinistic, moralistic generational assumptions about "consensual crime", such as believing male-student relationships with female teachers are invariably the "only exceptions to the rule". Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only judge <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">it </del>''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy, chauvinistic, moralistic generational assumptions about "consensual crime", such as believing male-student relationships with female teachers are invariably the "only exceptions to the rule". Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only judge <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lived experiences </ins>''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about further harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about further harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td></tr>
</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=25012&oldid=prevThe Admins at 16:13, 3 April 20242024-04-03T16:13:48Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:13, 3 April 2024</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l5">Line 5:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or </del>chauvinistic<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">/</del>moralistic assumptions such as believing <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">that </del>male student relationships with female teachers the only <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">non-abusive </del>exceptions to <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">an abusive </del>rule. Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only judge it ''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*How '''common''' are predatory relationships, really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. Arguments such as the proponent's tend to be based on lazy<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, </ins>chauvinistic<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, </ins>moralistic <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">generational </ins>assumptions <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">about "consensual crime", </ins>such as believing male<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-</ins>student relationships with female teachers <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">are invariably </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"</ins>only exceptions to <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the </ins>rule<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"</ins>. Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority can only judge it ''inefficiently'' when compared to subjective criteria.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] (prioritizing the reduction of harms/suffering) is usually applied in defense of consent laws. Yet the same ethical system may well contradict our proponent's argument, as he is causing considerable suffering for what he believes to be a "greater good" of harm-reduction. Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is reduced, above and beyond laws that entertain the possibility of consensual relations?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about further harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:*Further, are we not bringing about further harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]</div></td></tr>
</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=25011&oldid=prevThe Admins at 16:11, 3 April 20242024-04-03T16:11:13Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:11, 3 April 2024</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">consensual crime and </ins>unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><blockquote><font color="green">'''''A legal age provides a <u>fine line in the sand</u>, where society needs it. In court, objective, simple legislation cuts out the need for subjective interpretations, which can be easily manipulated by defense lawyers. A few unsafe, or unfair convictions are no loss, when it allows us to show <u>zero tolerance to the predators</u>.'''''</font></blockquote></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><blockquote><font color="green">'''''A legal age provides a <u>fine line in the sand</u>, where society needs it. In court, objective, simple legislation cuts out the need for subjective interpretations, which can be easily manipulated by defense lawyers. A few unsafe, or unfair convictions are no loss, when it allows us to show <u>zero tolerance to the predators</u>.'''''</font></blockquote></div></td></tr>
</table>The Adminshttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/index.php?title=Debate_Guide:_Legal_pragmatism&diff=25010&oldid=prevThe Admins at 16:08, 3 April 20242024-04-03T16:08:53Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:08, 3 April 2024</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><blockquote><font color="green">'''''A legal age provides a <u>fine line in the sand</u>, where society needs it. In court, objective, simple legislation cuts out the need for subjective interpretations. A few unsafe, or unfair convictions are no loss, when it allows us to show <u>zero tolerance to the predators</u>.'''''</font></blockquote></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><blockquote><font color="green">'''''A legal age provides a <u>fine line in the sand</u>, where society needs it. In court, objective, simple legislation cuts out the need for subjective interpretations<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, which can be easily manipulated by defense lawyers</ins>. A few unsafe, or unfair convictions are no loss, when it allows us to show <u>zero tolerance to the predators</u>.'''''</font></blockquote></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:</div></td></tr>
</table>The Admins