Debate Guide: Queers and the Left - Revision history

Jim Burton at 00:56, 2 April 2026

2026-04-02T00:56:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:56, 2 April 2026
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	It is a common myth that liberals in the US Democratic Party started the modern [[MAP Movement]] in an attempt to "legitimize pedophilia", and often one that is used to attack LGBT people by crude association.		It is a common myth that liberals in the US Democratic Party started the modern [[MAP Movement]] in an attempt to "legitimize pedophilia", and often one that is used to attack LGBT people by crude association.

	Yet there is not a single document in existence that demonstrates a Democratic Party official using the term "MAP" or its extension, in an approving context.<ref><small>Karen Berg is often cited as the exception. In its full context, this was not an endorsement, and she was attributing the term as opposed to utilizing it.</small></ref> LGBTQ+ media has explicitly rejected use of the [[MAP Flag]], even going so far as to circulate myths about the intentions of MAPs, or call the whole thing a hoax.<ref>Many examples of this exist in the gay media: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/26/minor-attracted-person-lgbtq-explainer/], [https://hornet.com/stories/minor-attracted-persons-flag-hoax/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20190321133619/https:/www.gaystarnews.com/article/no-this-isnt-a-real-pride-flag-it-represents-pedophiles/#gs.k4gift], [https://www.thegayuk.com/paedophiles-have-created-their-own-pride-flag/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20220916162653/https://attitude.co.uk/article/paedophiles-want-to-be-accepted-by-the-lgbt-community-claiming-they-are-minorities/18461/]. See also the Snopes etc "Fact Checks" gone awry in [[MAP Flag]].</ref> Should MAP Rights become part of some broader left-wing or radical agenda, this will be a [[Alternative Initialism\|future development]], likely in defiance to right-wing conspiracy theorists who would claim that "normalizing pedophilia" is the ultimate sign of "civilizational collapse".		Yet there is not a single document in existence that demonstrates a Democratic Party official using the term "MAP" or its extension, in an approving context.<ref><small>Karen Berg is often cited as the exception. In its full context, this was not an endorsement, and she was attributing the term as opposed to utilizing it.</small></ref> LGBTQ+ media has explicitly rejected use of the [[MAP Flag]], even going so far as to circulate myths about the intentions of MAPs, or call the whole thing a hoax.<ref>Many examples of this exist in the gay media: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/26/minor-attracted-person-lgbtq-explainer/], [https://hornet.com/stories/minor-attracted-persons-flag-hoax/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20190321133619/https:/www.gaystarnews.com/article/no-this-isnt-a-real-pride-flag-it-represents-pedophiles/#gs.k4gift], [https://www.thegayuk.com/paedophiles-have-created-their-own-pride-flag/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20220916162653/https://attitude.co.uk/article/paedophiles-want-to-be-accepted-by-the-lgbt-community-claiming-they-are-minorities/18461/]. See also the Snopes etc "Fact Checks" gone awry in [[MAP Flag]].</ref> Should MAP Rights become part of some broader left-wing or radical agenda, this will be a [[Alternative Initialism\|future development]], likely in deliberate defiance of right-wing conspiracy theorists who would claim that "normalizing pedophilia" is the ultimate sign of "civilizational collapse".

	There does exist historical evidence linking MAP and LGBT groups, but this association [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity\|ends in the 1990s]]. This is something that has been acknowledged by deep-dive academic researchers such as David Paternotte, i.e. historians who came to this subject from no particular bias or perspective.		There does exist historical evidence linking MAP and LGBT groups, but this association [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity\|ends in the 1990s]]. This is something that has been acknowledged by deep-dive academic researchers such as David Paternotte, i.e. historians who came to this subject from no particular bias or perspective.
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	==MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community==		==MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community==

	Some MAPs are ultimately [[Queer]] identifying~~, Queer~~, or a part of LGBTQ+ communities, regardless of what "official" queers say about any flag they hypothetically ~~might~~ stand under. ~~Hypothetically, we say~~, because ~~LGBTQ+~~ MAPs ~~must~~ remain in the closet about their MAP Identity. Closeting was ~~of course~~ something ~~that~~ the gay community once agitated against, with their strategic [[Wikipedia:Outing\|outing]] campaigns (when it suited their political goals).		Some MAPs are ultimately [[Queer]] identifying, or a part of LGBTQ+ communities, regardless of what "official" queers say about any flag they might hypothetically stand under. MAP Pride itself remains largely a hypothesis, because MAPs are forced to remain in the closet about their MAP Identity. Closeting was something the gay community once agitated against, with their strategic [[Wikipedia:Outing\|outing]] campaigns (when it suited their political goals).

	MAP Identity groups have sought to snap back against the erasure of MAPs from the LGBTQ+ community, and queerness from MAPs.		MAP Identity groups have sought to snap back against the erasure of MAPs from the LGBTQ+ community, and queerness from MAPs.

Jim Burton: /* MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community */

2026-03-27T02:12:12Z

MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:12, 27 March 2026
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	*[https://www.map-union.org/blog/are-maps-queer Are MAPs queer?] - Mu (organization).		*[https://www.map-union.org/blog/are-maps-queer Are MAPs queer?] - Mu (organization).
			*[[Beyond the Plus]] - Organization that embraced MAP identities as a form of queerness, while eschewing the LGBTQ+ mainstream. Closed due to pressure from the LGBTQ+ mainstream.

	==See also==		==See also==

Jim Burton at 13:26, 2 October 2025

2025-10-02T13:26:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:26, 2 October 2025
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	It is a common myth that liberals in the US Democratic Party started the modern [[MAP Movement]] in an attempt to "legitimize pedophilia", and often one that is used to attack LGBT people by crude association.		It is a common myth that liberals in the US Democratic Party started the modern [[MAP Movement]] in an attempt to "legitimize pedophilia", and often one that is used to attack LGBT people by crude association.

	Yet there is not a single document in existence that demonstrates a Democratic Party official using the term "MAP" or its extension, in an approving context.<ref><small>Karen Berg is often cited as the exception. In its full context, this was not an endorsement, and she was attributing the term as opposed to utilizing it.</small></ref> LGBTQ+ media has explicitly rejected use of the [[MAP Flag]], even going so far as to circulate myths about the intentions of MAPs, or call the whole thing a hoax.<ref>Many examples of this exist in the gay media: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/26/minor-attracted-person-lgbtq-explainer/], [https://hornet.com/stories/minor-attracted-persons-flag-hoax/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20190321133619/https:/www.gaystarnews.com/article/no-this-isnt-a-real-pride-flag-it-represents-pedophiles/#gs.k4gift], [https://www.thegayuk.com/paedophiles-have-created-their-own-pride-flag/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20220916162653/https://attitude.co.uk/article/paedophiles-want-to-be-accepted-by-the-lgbt-community-claiming-they-are-minorities/18461/]. See also the Snopes etc "Fact Checks" gone awry in [[MAP Flag]].</ref> Should MAP Rights become part of some broader left-wing or radical agenda, this will be a future development, likely in defiance to right-wing conspiracy theorists who would claim that "normalizing pedophilia" is the ultimate sign of "civilizational collapse".		Yet there is not a single document in existence that demonstrates a Democratic Party official using the term "MAP" or its extension, in an approving context.<ref><small>Karen Berg is often cited as the exception. In its full context, this was not an endorsement, and she was attributing the term as opposed to utilizing it.</small></ref> LGBTQ+ media has explicitly rejected use of the [[MAP Flag]], even going so far as to circulate myths about the intentions of MAPs, or call the whole thing a hoax.<ref>Many examples of this exist in the gay media: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/26/minor-attracted-person-lgbtq-explainer/], [https://hornet.com/stories/minor-attracted-persons-flag-hoax/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20190321133619/https:/www.gaystarnews.com/article/no-this-isnt-a-real-pride-flag-it-represents-pedophiles/#gs.k4gift], [https://www.thegayuk.com/paedophiles-have-created-their-own-pride-flag/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20220916162653/https://attitude.co.uk/article/paedophiles-want-to-be-accepted-by-the-lgbt-community-claiming-they-are-minorities/18461/]. See also the Snopes etc "Fact Checks" gone awry in [[MAP Flag]].</ref> Should MAP Rights become part of some broader left-wing or radical agenda, this will be a [[Alternative Initialism\|future development]], likely in defiance to right-wing conspiracy theorists who would claim that "normalizing pedophilia" is the ultimate sign of "civilizational collapse".

	There does exist historical evidence linking MAP and LGBT groups, but this association [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity\|ends in the 1990s]]. This is something that has been acknowledged by deep-dive academic researchers such as David Paternotte, i.e. historians who came to this subject from no particular bias or perspective.		There does exist historical evidence linking MAP and LGBT groups, but this association [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity\|ends in the 1990s]]. This is something that has been acknowledged by deep-dive academic researchers such as David Paternotte, i.e. historians who came to this subject from no particular bias or perspective.

Jim Burton at 13:24, 2 October 2025

2025-10-02T13:24:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:24, 2 October 2025
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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

	It is a common myth that liberals in the US Democratic Party started the modern [[MAP Movement]] in an attempt to "legitimize pedophilia", and often one that is used to attack LGBT people.		It is a common myth that liberals in the US Democratic Party started the modern [[MAP Movement]] in an attempt to "legitimize pedophilia", and often one that is used to attack LGBT people by crude association.

	Yet there is not a single document in existence that demonstrates a Democratic Party official using the term "MAP" or its extension, in an approving context.<ref><small>Karen Berg is often cited as the exception. In its full context, this was not an endorsement, and she was attributing the term as opposed to utilizing it.</small></ref> LGBTQ+ media has explicitly rejected use of the [[MAP Flag]], even going so far as to circulate myths about the intentions of MAPs, or call the whole thing a hoax.<ref>Many examples of this exist in the gay media: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/26/minor-attracted-person-lgbtq-explainer/], [https://hornet.com/stories/minor-attracted-persons-flag-hoax/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20190321133619/https:/www.gaystarnews.com/article/no-this-isnt-a-real-pride-flag-it-represents-pedophiles/#gs.k4gift], [https://www.thegayuk.com/paedophiles-have-created-their-own-pride-flag/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20220916162653/https://attitude.co.uk/article/paedophiles-want-to-be-accepted-by-the-lgbt-community-claiming-they-are-minorities/18461/]. See also the Snopes etc "Fact Checks" gone awry in [[MAP Flag]].</ref> Should MAP Rights become part of some broader left-wing or radical agenda, this will be a future development, likely in defiance to right-wing conspiracy theorists who would claim that "normalizing pedophilia" is the ultimate sign of "civilizational collapse".		Yet there is not a single document in existence that demonstrates a Democratic Party official using the term "MAP" or its extension, in an approving context.<ref><small>Karen Berg is often cited as the exception. In its full context, this was not an endorsement, and she was attributing the term as opposed to utilizing it.</small></ref> LGBTQ+ media has explicitly rejected use of the [[MAP Flag]], even going so far as to circulate myths about the intentions of MAPs, or call the whole thing a hoax.<ref>Many examples of this exist in the gay media: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/26/minor-attracted-person-lgbtq-explainer/], [https://hornet.com/stories/minor-attracted-persons-flag-hoax/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20190321133619/https:/www.gaystarnews.com/article/no-this-isnt-a-real-pride-flag-it-represents-pedophiles/#gs.k4gift], [https://www.thegayuk.com/paedophiles-have-created-their-own-pride-flag/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20220916162653/https://attitude.co.uk/article/paedophiles-want-to-be-accepted-by-the-lgbt-community-claiming-they-are-minorities/18461/]. See also the Snopes etc "Fact Checks" gone awry in [[MAP Flag]].</ref> Should MAP Rights become part of some broader left-wing or radical agenda, this will be a future development, likely in defiance to right-wing conspiracy theorists who would claim that "normalizing pedophilia" is the ultimate sign of "civilizational collapse".

Jim Burton at 13:23, 2 October 2025

2025-10-02T13:23:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:23, 2 October 2025
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	__NOTOC__		__NOTOC__
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	<font color="green">'''''We are only talking about "MAP Rights" because this was all an attempt by queer-loving [[degeneracy\|DEGENERATE]] liberals in the DEMONICRAT Party to NORMALIZE their perversion!'''''</font~~><br~~>		<font color="green">'''''We are only talking about "MAP Rights" because this was all an attempt by queer-loving [[degeneracy\|DEGENERATE]] liberals in the DEMONICRAT Party to NORMALIZE their perversion!'''''</font>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

Jim Burton at 13:23, 2 October 2025

2025-10-02T13:23:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:23, 2 October 2025
Line 2:		Line 2:
	__NOTOC__		__NOTOC__
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	<font color="green">'''''We are only talking about "MAP Rights" because this was all an attempt by queer-loving [[degeneracy\|DEGENERATE]] liberals in the DEMONICRAT Party to NORMALIZE their perversion!'''''</font><br~~><hr~~>		<font color="green">'''''We are only talking about "MAP Rights" because this was all an attempt by queer-loving [[degeneracy\|DEGENERATE]] liberals in the DEMONICRAT Party to NORMALIZE their perversion!'''''</font><br>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

Jim Burton at 03:50, 7 September 2025

2025-09-07T03:50:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:50, 7 September 2025
Line 7:		Line 7:
	It is a common myth that liberals in the US Democratic Party started the modern [[MAP Movement]] in an attempt to "legitimize pedophilia", and often one that is used to attack LGBT people.		It is a common myth that liberals in the US Democratic Party started the modern [[MAP Movement]] in an attempt to "legitimize pedophilia", and often one that is used to attack LGBT people.

	Yet there is not a single document in existence that demonstrates a Democratic Party official using the term "MAP" or its extension, in an approving context. LGBTQ+ media has explicitly rejected use of the [[MAP Flag]], even going so far as to circulate myths about the intentions of MAPs, or call the whole thing a hoax.<ref>Many examples of this exist in the gay media: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/26/minor-attracted-person-lgbtq-explainer/], [https://hornet.com/stories/minor-attracted-persons-flag-hoax/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20190321133619/https:/www.gaystarnews.com/article/no-this-isnt-a-real-pride-flag-it-represents-pedophiles/#gs.k4gift], [https://www.thegayuk.com/paedophiles-have-created-their-own-pride-flag/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20220916162653/https://attitude.co.uk/article/paedophiles-want-to-be-accepted-by-the-lgbt-community-claiming-they-are-minorities/18461/]. See also the Snopes etc "Fact Checks" gone awry in [[MAP Flag]].</ref> Should MAP Rights become part of some broader left-wing or radical agenda, this will be a future development, likely in defiance to right-wing conspiracy theorists who would claim that "normalizing pedophilia" is the ultimate sign of "civilizational collapse".		Yet there is not a single document in existence that demonstrates a Democratic Party official using the term "MAP" or its extension, in an approving context.<ref><small>Karen Berg is often cited as the exception. In its full context, this was not an endorsement, and she was attributing the term as opposed to utilizing it.</small></ref> LGBTQ+ media has explicitly rejected use of the [[MAP Flag]], even going so far as to circulate myths about the intentions of MAPs, or call the whole thing a hoax.<ref>Many examples of this exist in the gay media: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/08/26/minor-attracted-person-lgbtq-explainer/], [https://hornet.com/stories/minor-attracted-persons-flag-hoax/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20190321133619/https:/www.gaystarnews.com/article/no-this-isnt-a-real-pride-flag-it-represents-pedophiles/#gs.k4gift], [https://www.thegayuk.com/paedophiles-have-created-their-own-pride-flag/], [https://web.archive.org/web/20220916162653/https://attitude.co.uk/article/paedophiles-want-to-be-accepted-by-the-lgbt-community-claiming-they-are-minorities/18461/]. See also the Snopes etc "Fact Checks" gone awry in [[MAP Flag]].</ref> Should MAP Rights become part of some broader left-wing or radical agenda, this will be a future development, likely in defiance to right-wing conspiracy theorists who would claim that "normalizing pedophilia" is the ultimate sign of "civilizational collapse".

	There does exist historical evidence linking MAP and LGBT groups, but this association [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity\|ends in the 1990s]]. This is something that has been acknowledged by deep-dive academic researchers such as David Paternotte, i.e. historians who came to this subject from no particular bias or perspective.		There does exist historical evidence linking MAP and LGBT groups, but this association [[Historical examples of LGBT-MAP unity\|ends in the 1990s]]. This is something that has been acknowledged by deep-dive academic researchers such as David Paternotte, i.e. historians who came to this subject from no particular bias or perspective.

Jim Burton: /* See also */

2025-08-27T22:41:03Z

Jim Burton: /* MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community */

2025-08-27T22:18:32Z

MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:18, 27 August 2025
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	MAP Identity groups have sought to snap back against the erasure of MAPs from the LGBTQ+ community, and queerness from MAPs.		MAP Identity groups have sought to snap back against the erasure of MAPs from the LGBTQ+ community, and queerness from MAPs.

	*[https://www.map-union.org/blog/are-maps-queer Are MAPs queer?]		*[https://www.map-union.org/blog/are-maps-queer Are MAPs queer?] - Mu (organization).

	==See also==		==See also==

Jim Burton: /* MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community */

2025-08-27T22:18:00Z

MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:18, 27 August 2025
Line 13:		Line 13:
	==MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community==		==MAPs can be Queer, or a part of the LGBTQ+ community==

	Some MAPs are ultimately [[Queer]] or a part of LGBTQ+ communities, regardless of what "official" queers say about any flag they stand under. ~~Only~~, ~~they~~ must remain in the closet, something that the gay community ~~previously~~ agitated against, with their strategic [[Wikipedia:Outing\|outing]] campaigns (when it suited their political goals).		Some MAPs are ultimately [[Queer]] identifying, Queer, or a part of LGBTQ+ communities, regardless of what "official" queers say about any flag they hypothetically might stand under. Hypothetically, we say, because LGBTQ+ MAPs must remain in the closet about their MAP Identity. Closeting was of course something that the gay community once agitated against, with their strategic [[Wikipedia:Outing\|outing]] campaigns (when it suited their political goals).

	MAP Identity groups have sought to snap back against the erasure of MAPs from the LGBTQ+ community, and queerness from MAPs.		MAP Identity groups have sought to snap back against the erasure of MAPs from the LGBTQ+ community, and queerness from MAPs.

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:41, 27 August 2025
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	*[[Censorship]]		*[[Censorship]]
	*[[Moral panic]]		*[[Moral panic]]
	*[[Allyn Walker]] and [[Thomas Hubbard]] are two academics who were attacked by different types of leftist/liberal anti.		*[[Allyn Walker]] and [[Thomas Hubbard]] are two LGBTQ+ academics who were attacked by different types of leftist/liberal anti for work they had done on minor attraction.

	==References==		==References==

	[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Minor-Attracted]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]]		[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Minor-Attracted]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]]