Lolicon-MAP Equivalence Debate - Revision history

Jim Burton: /* Gallery of Copes */

2026-02-25T23:18:55Z

Gallery of Copes

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:18, 25 February 2026
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	==Gallery of Copes==		==Gallery of Copes==

	:''For more lolicon memes, see [[Memes and Graphics]~~], and [https://booru.youjo.love/post/list booru.youjo.love~~].''		:''For more lolicon memes, see [[Memes and Graphics]].''

	<gallery>		<gallery>

Jim Burton: /* Common Lolicon copes and explanations */

2026-02-25T23:17:25Z

Common Lolicon copes and explanations

Jim Burton: /* Common Lolicon copes and explanations */

2026-02-25T23:16:34Z

Common Lolicon copes and explanations

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:16, 25 February 2026
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	==Common Lolicon copes and explanations==		==Common Lolicon copes and explanations==

	It is important to mention that many Lolicons insist they are '''not pedophiles/hebephiles'''. Much time and energy has thus been spent by ~~such~~ people on maintaining the mental split ~~required to maintain this~~ "hard distinction", when there is at the very least a soft-overlap between MAPs and Lolicons. They are sometimes referred to by MAPs pejoratively as "Ironic Lolicons", and provide well-worn rationalizations:		It is important to mention that many Lolicons insist they are '''not pedophiles/hebephiles'''. Much time and energy has thus been spent by said people, on maintaining the mental split necessary for a "hard distinction", when there is at the very least a soft-overlap between MAPs and Lolicons. They are sometimes referred to by MAPs pejoratively as "Ironic Lolicons", and provide well-worn rationalizations:

	:'''1. Appeal to ethics:''' ''"We are acting ethically, since we are not consuming real [[child pornography]]."''		:'''1. Appeal to ethics:''' ''"We are acting ethically, since we are not consuming real [[child pornography]]."''

Jim Burton: /* Common Lolicon copes and explanations */

2026-02-25T23:15:56Z

Common Lolicon copes and explanations

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:15, 25 February 2026
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	==Common Lolicon copes and explanations==		==Common Lolicon copes and explanations==

	It is important to mention that many Lolicons insist they are '''not pedophiles/hebephiles''' ~~and invest large amounts of~~ time and energy ~~seething over~~ the mental split required to maintain this distinction. They are sometimes referred to by MAPs pejoratively as "Ironic Lolicons", and provide well-worn rationalizations:		It is important to mention that many Lolicons insist they are '''not pedophiles/hebephiles'''. Much time and energy has thus been spent by such people on maintaining the mental split required to maintain this "hard distinction", when there is at the very least a soft-overlap between MAPs and Lolicons. They are sometimes referred to by MAPs pejoratively as "Ironic Lolicons", and provide well-worn rationalizations:

	:'''1. Appeal to ethics:''' ''"We are acting ethically, since we are not consuming real [[child pornography]]."''		:'''1. Appeal to ethics:''' ''"We are acting ethically, since we are not consuming real [[child pornography]]."''

The Admins: /* Summary */ polish

2023-08-21T16:18:32Z

Summary: polish

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:18, 21 August 2023
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	==Summary==		==Summary==

	It can be concluded that the Western "Ironic Lolicon" is engaged in a patterned coping strategy (externalizing his own inner battlefield) in which he distances other MAPs in order to justify his habits. He classes anything outside of his own masturbatory impulse cycle as beyond the pale, ~~delegitimizing all forms of pedophilia that are not fetishistic and~~ [[Wikipedia:Egosyntonic and egodystonic\|ego-~~dystonic~~]] as ~~his own. The unfortunate consequence of~~ this is the ~~sadly~~ familiar ~~attempts~~ to ~~gatekeep denialistic and fetishistic pedophilia as~~ the ~~"good" side of a moral boundary~~.		It can be concluded that the Western "Ironic Lolicon" is engaged in a patterned coping strategy (externalizing his own inner battlefield) in which he distances other MAPs in order to justify his habits. He classes anything outside of his own masturbatory impulse cycle as beyond the pale, attempting to delegitimize [[Wikipedia:Egosyntonic and egodystonic\|ego-syntonic]], non-denialistic pedophilia and hebephilia. As well as promoting the myth/stereotype that attraction to minors is rooted crudely in objective aesthetics, this short-termist special pleading also recapitulates the series of familiar stigmas that led to negative attitudes towards lolicons in the first place.

	==Gallery of Copes==		==Gallery of Copes==

The Admins: /* External Links */

2023-05-19T17:22:10Z

External Links

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:22, 19 May 2023
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	*[[Debate Guide: Self-loathing hatred]]		*[[Debate Guide: Self-loathing hatred]]

	==External ~~Links~~==		==External links==

	*[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_Japan Child pornography laws in Japan] - Wikipedia.		*[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_Japan Child pornography laws in Japan] - Wikipedia.

The Admins: /* Gallery of Copes */

2023-05-19T17:21:53Z

Gallery of Copes

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:21, 19 May 2023
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	==Gallery of Copes==		==Gallery of Copes==

	:''For more lolicon memes, see [[Memes and Graphics]].''		:''For more lolicon memes, see [[Memes and Graphics]], and [https://booru.youjo.love/post/list booru.youjo.love].''

	<gallery>		<gallery>

The Admins: /* Gallery of Copes */

2023-05-09T22:32:02Z

Gallery of Copes

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:32, 9 May 2023
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	File:Fuckorkill.png\|This famous poll was answered mainly by Ironic Lolicons		File:Fuckorkill.png\|This famous poll was answered mainly by Ironic Lolicons
	File:LolicopeNBC.png\|[https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna26639577 NBC: Anime erotic subculture goes mainstream]		File:LolicopeNBC.png\|[https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna26639577 NBC: Anime erotic subculture goes mainstream]
			File:Lolicongloat.png\|Lolicon gloating when he got a MAP's account suspended
	</gallery>		</gallery>
	The pipe example was originally intended to demonstrate that representations of Tobacco do not encourage consumption. Lolicons use it to pretend their psychological targeting is not towards minors.		The pipe example was originally intended to demonstrate that representations of Tobacco do not encourage consumption. Lolicons use it to pretend their psychological targeting is not towards minors.

The Admins at 20:38, 18 April 2023

2023-04-18T20:38:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:38, 18 April 2023
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	:'''4: Muddying the waters/epistemic nitpicking:''' ''"Lolicon is by definition a broad category of art. Some Lolis (characters) are actually presented as adults. Therefore you can't just call Lolicons pedophiles - that's slanderous."''		:'''4: Muddying the waters/epistemic nitpicking:''' ''"Lolicon is by definition a broad category of art. Some Lolis (characters) are actually presented as adults. Therefore you can't just call Lolicons pedophiles - that's slanderous."''

	Clearly, this is an epistemic/etymological fallacy and an argument from consequence. It also betrays what we always suspected - that the pattern of argumentation is rooted in a both a fear of ~~consequence~~ and general sociopolitical expedience.		Clearly, this is an epistemic/etymological fallacy and an argument from consequence. It also betrays what we always suspected - that the pattern of argumentation is rooted in a both a fear of negative consequences and general sociopolitical expedience.

	:'''5: Simplistic appeal to Japanese Culture:''' ''"The Japanese make the distinction between fiction and real abuse, since they made [[Child Pornography\|CSAM]] illegal."''		:'''5: Simplistic appeal to Japanese Culture:''' ''"The Japanese make the distinction between fiction and real abuse, since they made [[Child Pornography\|CSAM]] illegal."''
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	''Lolicon'' is derived from the phrase "Lolita complex" (referring to the novel [[Lolita]]) - entering use in Japan in the 1970s when sexual imagery of the shōjo (idealized young girl) was expanding in the country's media.		''Lolicon'' is derived from the phrase "Lolita complex" (referring to the novel [[Lolita]]) - entering use in Japan in the 1970s when sexual imagery of the shōjo (idealized young girl) was expanding in the country's media.

	The western cultural take here, is again - hopelessly simplistic. Scholarly defenses within Japan and the West are very recent and doubtless motivated by cultural embarrassment/appeal to sophistic argumentation. They are not reflective of any tendency within wider Japanese society to make a "special distinction" in favor of Lolicon - as unrelated to minor-attraction.		The western cultural take here, is again - hopelessly simplistic. Scholarly defenses within Japan and the West are ''very'' recent and doubtless motivated by cultural embarrassment/appeal to sophistic argumentation. They are not reflective of any tendency within wider Japanese society to make a "special distinction" in favor of Lolicon - as unrelated to minor-attraction.

	==Summary==		==Summary==

	It can be concluded that the Lolicon is engaged in a patterned coping strategy (externalizing his own inner battlefield) in which he distances other MAPs in order to justify his habits. He classes anything outside of his own masturbatory impulse cycle as beyond the pale, delegitimizing ~~"true~~ pedophilia". The unfortunate consequence of this is ~~that he justifies fetishization as an ethical limit - and subsequently~~ attempts to gatekeep ~~said~~ moral boundary.		It can be concluded that the Western "Ironic Lolicon" is engaged in a patterned coping strategy (externalizing his own inner battlefield) in which he distances other MAPs in order to justify his habits. He classes anything outside of his own masturbatory impulse cycle as beyond the pale, delegitimizing all forms of pedophilia that are not fetishistic and [[Wikipedia:Egosyntonic and egodystonic\|ego-dystonic]] as his own. The unfortunate consequence of this is the sadly familiar attempts to gatekeep denialistic and fetishistic pedophilia as the "good" side of a moral boundary.

	==Gallery of Copes==		==Gallery of Copes==

The Admins: /* Common Lolicon copes and explanations */

2023-04-18T20:27:52Z

Common Lolicon copes and explanations

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:27, 18 April 2023
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	:'''3. Stylistic appeal:''' ''"Stylized images of humans (e.g. Loli facial features) are more arousing because of the stylistic features. We are not attracted to real children."''		:'''3. Stylistic appeal:''' ''"Stylized images of humans (e.g. Loli facial features) are more arousing because of the stylistic features. We are not attracted to real children."''

	Accepting that as a premise, then why do Lolicons ~~idealize~~ stylized children over adults? We can only conclude classical pedophilia/hebephilia or alternatively some kind of deviance ~~fetishization~~ in the person who finds this material arousing.		Accepting that as a premise, then why do Lolicons ''prefer'' "stylized" children over "stylized" adults, or indeed, "stylized" children over "stylized" pot plants? We can only conclude classical pedophilia/hebephilia or alternatively some kind of deviance fetishism in the person who finds this material arousing.

	:'''4: Muddying the waters/epistemic nitpicking:''' ''"Lolicon is by definition a broad category of art. Some Lolis (characters) are actually presented as adults. Therefore you can't just call Lolicons pedophiles - that's slanderous."''		:'''4: Muddying the waters/epistemic nitpicking:''' ''"Lolicon is by definition a broad category of art. Some Lolis (characters) are actually presented as adults. Therefore you can't just call Lolicons pedophiles - that's slanderous."''

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:17, 25 February 2026
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	:'''1. Appeal to ethics:''' ''"We are acting ethically, since we are not consuming real [[child pornography]]."''		:'''1. Appeal to ethics:''' ''"We are acting ethically, since we are not consuming real [[child pornography]]."''

	By implying their decision to use lolicon is ''ethically grounded'', the Lolicon effectively confirms a substitution hypothesis, i.e. he is satisfying the same underlying impulse as a pedophile or hebephile.		:By implying their decision to use lolicon is ''ethically grounded'', the Lolicon effectively confirms a substitution hypothesis, i.e. he is satisfying the same underlying impulse as a pedophile or hebephile.

	:'''2. Appeal to fiction:''' ''"Lolicon is a fictional depiction of cute looking, elfine quasi-human forms in Japanese art. It is a drawing, and therefore we are not attracted to real children and therefore not pedophilic."''		:'''2. Appeal to fiction:''' ''"Lolicon is a fictional depiction of cute looking, elfine quasi-human forms in Japanese art. It is a drawing, and therefore we are not attracted to real children and therefore not pedophilic."''

	Arousal is clearly dependent upon realism, as proven by the evolution of Lolicon as a medium. It itches the same scratch, and thus psychological substitution is clearly indicated. All you are left with is a mental split (good Lolicon vs bad Pedo) based upon a crude genetic fallacy, namely an appeal to fiction: "We only idolize fictional children, therefore the idea that we are attracted to children is in the same sense, fiction".		:Arousal is clearly dependent upon realism, as proven by the evolution of Lolicon as a medium. It itches the same scratch, and thus psychological substitution is clearly indicated. All you are left with is a mental split (good Lolicon vs bad Pedo) based upon a crude genetic fallacy, namely an appeal to fiction: "We only idolize fictional children, therefore the idea that we are attracted to children is in the same sense, fiction".

	:'''3. Stylistic appeal:''' ''"Stylized images of humans (e.g. Loli facial features) are more arousing because of the stylistic features. We are not attracted to real children."''		:'''3. Stylistic appeal:''' ''"Stylized images of humans (e.g. Loli facial features) are more arousing because of the stylistic features. We are not attracted to real children."''

	Accepting that as a premise, then why do Lolicons ''prefer'' "stylized" children over "stylized" adults, or indeed, "stylized" children over "stylized" pot plants? We can only conclude classical pedophilia/hebephilia or alternatively some kind of deviance fetishism in the person who finds this material arousing.		:Accepting that as a premise, then why do Lolicons ''prefer'' "stylized" children over "stylized" adults, or indeed, "stylized" children over "stylized" pot plants? We can only conclude classical pedophilia/hebephilia or alternatively some kind of deviance fetishism in the person who finds this material arousing.

	:'''4: Muddying the waters/epistemic nitpicking:''' ''"Lolicon is by definition a broad category of art. Some Lolis (characters) are actually presented as adults. Therefore you can't just call Lolicons pedophiles - that's slanderous."''		:'''4: Muddying the waters/epistemic nitpicking:''' ''"Lolicon is by definition a broad category of art. Some Lolis (characters) are actually presented as adults. Therefore you can't just call Lolicons pedophiles - that's slanderous."''

	Clearly, this is an epistemic/etymological fallacy and an argument from consequence. It also betrays what we always suspected - that the pattern of argumentation is rooted in a both a fear of negative consequences and general sociopolitical expedience.		:Clearly, this is an epistemic/etymological fallacy and an argument from consequence. It also betrays what we always suspected - that the pattern of argumentation is rooted in a both a fear of negative consequences and general sociopolitical expedience.

	:'''5: Simplistic appeal to Japanese Culture:''' ''"The Japanese make the distinction between fiction and real abuse, since they made [[Child Pornography\|CSAM]] illegal."''		:'''5: Simplistic appeal to Japanese Culture:''' ''"The Japanese make the distinction between fiction and real abuse, since they made [[Child Pornography\|CSAM]] illegal."''

	Not fully until 2014 (when posession was finally outlawed under western pressure<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20140606000556/http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/06/04/national/crime-legal/japan-finally-moving-to-ban-child-porn-possession/ Japan Times - Lolicon permitted after CP posession made illegal.]</ref><ref>[https://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/17/world/asia/japan-child-porn-law CNN]</ref>), which makes Japan an outlier. Even after that point, collectors were given a "grace period" to destroy their collections.<ref>[https://time.com/2892728/japan-finally-bans-child-pornography/?amp=true Time.com: Japan outlaws Child Porn]</ref> This is not to say that most Japanese people did not express a ''disapproving'' tolerance towards CP (as many Greeks did towards [[pederasty]]), but an appeal to Japanese culture<ref>[https://www.ucanews.com/news/innocence-lost-japans-lax-attitude-to-pedophilia/92909 "Innocence Lost" - Western Imperialist Catholic take on Japanese culture]</ref> most certainly does not bolster the case of westerner "no pedo" Lolicons.		:Not fully until 2014 (when posession was finally outlawed under western pressure<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20140606000556/http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/06/04/national/crime-legal/japan-finally-moving-to-ban-child-porn-possession/ Japan Times - Lolicon permitted after CP posession made illegal.]</ref><ref>[https://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/17/world/asia/japan-child-porn-law CNN]</ref>), which makes Japan an outlier. Even after that point, collectors were given a "grace period" to destroy their collections.<ref>[https://time.com/2892728/japan-finally-bans-child-pornography/?amp=true Time.com: Japan outlaws Child Porn]</ref> This is not to say that most Japanese people did not express a ''disapproving'' tolerance towards CP (as many Greeks did towards [[pederasty]]), but an appeal to Japanese culture<ref>[https://www.ucanews.com/news/innocence-lost-japans-lax-attitude-to-pedophilia/92909 "Innocence Lost" - Western Imperialist Catholic take on Japanese culture]</ref> most certainly does not bolster the case of westerner "no pedo" Lolicons.

	:'''6: Lolicon "does not mean attraction to minors":'''		:'''6: Lolicon "does not mean attraction to minors":'''

	''Lolicon'' is derived from the phrase "Lolita complex" (referring to the novel [[Lolita]]) - entering use in Japan in the 1970s when sexual imagery of the shōjo (idealized young girl) was expanding in the country's media.		:''Lolicon'' is derived from the phrase "Lolita complex" (referring to the novel [[Lolita]]) - entering use in Japan in the 1970s when sexual imagery of the shōjo (idealized young girl) was expanding in the country's media.

	The western cultural take here, is again - hopelessly simplistic. Scholarly defenses within Japan and the West are ''very'' recent and doubtless motivated by cultural embarrassment/appeal to sophistic argumentation. They are not reflective of any tendency within wider Japanese society to make a "special distinction" in favor of Lolicon - as unrelated to minor-attraction.		The western cultural take here, is again - hopelessly simplistic. Scholarly defenses within Japan and the West are ''very'' recent and doubtless motivated by cultural embarrassment/appeal to sophistic argumentation. They are not reflective of any tendency within wider Japanese society to make a "special distinction" in favor of Lolicon - as unrelated to minor-attraction.