Nature of the problem - Revision history

The Admins: /* Homosexual precedent, and the problem with addressing the problem */

2009-12-23T02:33:13Z

Homosexual precedent, and the problem with addressing the problem

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:33, 23 December 2009
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	==Homosexual precedent, and the problem with addressing the problem==		==Homosexual precedent, and the problem with addressing the problem==

	The new-found status (and positive identity) of homosexuals can be credited partly to politically expedient activists who "lawyered" their success by appealing to pre-existing assumptions, for example, human rights and ~~scienc~~. However, people often overlook important contextual changes that underpinned and enabled the gay movement. All too often, it is assumed that the historical prevailing order - far from being fundamentally biased against a once oppressed group, was simply in need of some long sought-after "truths" that would facilitate linear, incremental "progress" in knowledge and justice. It is forgotten that before "gay lib" and other new social movements achieved their aims, there existed fundamental and far-reaching assumptions; assumptions as deeply ingrained as the status and "inherent nature" of the "child" for example, is now. The role of women and the role of religion in dictating social policy, for example, both had to be re-assessed before multiple social movements could achieve their objectives. Throughout this era, homosexuals were as much ''created'' as a positive, assimilated, mainstream gay ''social identity'' as they were liberated! On a more cynical note, this identity needed also to be marketable. Looking back on the homosexual movement helps us understand that in addition to politically expedient tactics (appeals to pre-existing thought systems, power structures, markets) political movements must draw upon broader social changes, and the radical claims and theories underlying them. Otherwise, we will struggle hopelessly against the tide.		The new-found status (and positive identity) of homosexuals can be credited partly to politically expedient activists who "lawyered" their success by appealing to pre-existing assumptions, for example, human rights and science. However, people often overlook important contextual changes that underpinned and enabled the gay movement. All too often, it is assumed that the historical prevailing order - far from being fundamentally biased against a once oppressed group, was simply in need of some long sought-after "truths" that would facilitate linear, incremental "progress" in knowledge and justice. It is forgotten that before "gay lib" and other new social movements achieved their aims, there existed fundamental and far-reaching assumptions; assumptions as deeply ingrained as the status and "inherent nature" of the "child" for example, is now. The role of women and the role of religion in dictating social policy, for example, both had to be re-assessed before multiple social movements could achieve their objectives. Throughout this era, homosexuals were as much ''created'' as a positive, assimilated, mainstream gay ''social identity'' as they were liberated! On a more cynical note, this identity needed also to be marketable. Looking back on the homosexual movement helps us understand that in addition to politically expedient tactics (appeals to pre-existing thought systems, power structures, markets) political movements must draw upon broader social changes, and the radical claims and theories underlying them. Otherwise, we will struggle hopelessly against the tide.

	So, absent the favourable conditions described above, no one should come to a site such as Newgon.com expecting to find a neat set of easily navigable tools for the undertaking of "contemporary democratic activism" in support of a pre-existing "new social movement". At this point, ''there is no movement'', and the form that such a movement will take has yet to be determined! We are putting ourselves at the forefront of debates concerning how this movement should manifest itself, and our agenda is clear:		So, absent the favourable conditions described above, no one should come to a site such as Newgon.com expecting to find a neat set of easily navigable tools for the undertaking of "contemporary democratic activism" in support of a pre-existing "new social movement". At this point, ''there is no movement'', and the form that such a movement will take has yet to be determined! We are putting ourselves at the forefront of debates concerning how this movement should manifest itself, and our agenda is clear:

The Admins at 02:31, 23 December 2009

2009-12-23T02:31:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:31, 23 December 2009
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	So how do we go about changing this order, and using its limitations and inbuilt assumptions to our advantage? How do we create a situation where age alone does not dictate what a person is allowed to do, not least in the realm of physical relationships? How to liberate endless physical attractions and sensual expressions from the fascistic framework of "good and bad", "sexual" delineations that currently entrap and problematise them so?		So how do we go about changing this order, and using its limitations and inbuilt assumptions to our advantage? How do we create a situation where age alone does not dictate what a person is allowed to do, not least in the realm of physical relationships? How to liberate endless physical attractions and sensual expressions from the fascistic framework of "good and bad", "sexual" delineations that currently entrap and problematise them so?

			==Homosexual precedent, and the problem with addressing the problem==

	The new-found status (and positive identity) of homosexuals can be credited partly to politically expedient activists who "lawyered" their success by appealing to pre-existing assumptions, for example, human rights and scienc. However, people often overlook important contextual changes that underpinned and enabled the gay movement. All too often, it is assumed that the historical prevailing order - far from being fundamentally biased against a once oppressed group, was simply in need of some long sought-after "truths" that would facilitate linear, incremental "progress" in knowledge and justice. It is forgotten that before "gay lib" and other new social movements achieved their aims, there existed fundamental and far-reaching assumptions; assumptions as deeply ingrained as the status and "inherent nature" of the "child" for example, is now. The role of women and the role of religion in dictating social policy, for example, both had to be re-assessed before multiple social movements could achieve their objectives. Throughout this era, homosexuals were as much ''created'' as a positive, assimilated, mainstream gay ''social identity'' as they were liberated! On a more cynical note, this identity needed also to be marketable. Looking back on the homosexual movement helps us understand that in addition to politically expedient tactics (appeals to pre-existing thought systems, power structures, markets) political movements must draw upon broader social changes, and the radical claims and theories underlying them. Otherwise, we will struggle hopelessly against the tide.		The new-found status (and positive identity) of homosexuals can be credited partly to politically expedient activists who "lawyered" their success by appealing to pre-existing assumptions, for example, human rights and scienc. However, people often overlook important contextual changes that underpinned and enabled the gay movement. All too often, it is assumed that the historical prevailing order - far from being fundamentally biased against a once oppressed group, was simply in need of some long sought-after "truths" that would facilitate linear, incremental "progress" in knowledge and justice. It is forgotten that before "gay lib" and other new social movements achieved their aims, there existed fundamental and far-reaching assumptions; assumptions as deeply ingrained as the status and "inherent nature" of the "child" for example, is now. The role of women and the role of religion in dictating social policy, for example, both had to be re-assessed before multiple social movements could achieve their objectives. Throughout this era, homosexuals were as much ''created'' as a positive, assimilated, mainstream gay ''social identity'' as they were liberated! On a more cynical note, this identity needed also to be marketable. Looking back on the homosexual movement helps us understand that in addition to politically expedient tactics (appeals to pre-existing thought systems, power structures, markets) political movements must draw upon broader social changes, and the radical claims and theories underlying them. Otherwise, we will struggle hopelessly against the tide.

The Admins at 02:25, 23 December 2009

2009-12-23T02:25:20Z

The Admins at 21:20, 21 December 2009

2009-12-21T21:20:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:20, 21 December 2009
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	:'''''Youth Rights''' and participation must be an integral part of our eventual activism (without a broader movement to fall back on, we are doomed), and we must seek to '''challenge''' pre-existing belief systems and power structures '''as well as taking advantage of them'''! And whilst labelling may be of use at a personal, and consensual group level, attempts to label a whole movement with terms such as "sex offender" (implying only legal persecution) or "child love" (implying only [[pedophilia]]/'''older''' partner status, and most problematically, exclusive [[adult]]hood) need to be dismissed at this early, formative stage. It doesn't take long to find individuals working for our cause who conform to no such label. Political libertarians and dissidents of various forms. Adults who as youngsters, experienced a physical relationship in terms that our culture does not allow them to express! Lets encourage such people, because without them, we are weaker and far easier to dismiss!''		:'''''Youth Rights''' and participation must be an integral part of our eventual activism (without a broader movement to fall back on, we are doomed), and we must seek to '''challenge''' pre-existing belief systems and power structures '''as well as taking advantage of them'''! And whilst labelling may be of use at a personal, and consensual group level, attempts to label a whole movement with terms such as "sex offender" (implying only legal persecution) or "child love" (implying only [[pedophilia]]/'''older''' partner status, and most problematically, exclusive [[adult]]hood) need to be dismissed at this early, formative stage. It doesn't take long to find individuals working for our cause who conform to no such label. Political libertarians and dissidents of various forms. Adults who as youngsters, experienced a physical relationship in terms that our culture does not allow them to express! Lets encourage such people, because without them, we are weaker and far easier to dismiss!''

	Don't expect to rock the boat in the way that a more mainstream queer activist would! Many of us are constrained by a number of unique factors at this stage, so we must always seek to adapt. Because of these factors and the relatively small numbers involved, a web-roots site such as Newgon.com can not expect to affect an instant "concrete" and "measurable" change in wider society. Indeed, not in many years let alone within a few months of one person's decision to chat on its forum or upload some quotes to its wiki. Apart from personal networking, ''our sole objective'' is to compile once disparate, subversive information into a single resource, publish it, and keep these alternative ideas circulating. The formation of a solid, political movement is something that will happen over time, and something we are naturally placed to influence. But until the adequate capacity, consensus and manpower develops, we are right to focus on ~~developing~~ and ~~circulating these core ideas in isolation~~.		Don't expect to rock the boat in the way that a more mainstream queer activist would! Many of us are constrained by a number of unique factors at this stage, so we must always seek to adapt. Because of these factors and the relatively small numbers involved, a web-roots site such as Newgon.com can not expect to affect an instant "concrete" and "measurable" change in wider society. Indeed, not in many years let alone within a few months of one person's decision to chat on its forum or upload some quotes to its wiki. Apart from personal networking, ''our sole objective'' is to compile once disparate, subversive information into a single resource, publish it, and keep these alternative ideas circulating. The formation of a solid, political movement is something that will happen over time, and something we are naturally placed to influence. But until the adequate capacity, consensus and manpower develops, we are right to focus on exploration and consolidation.

The Admins: New page: '''Many people walk away from projects such as Newgon.com''' because they fundamentally misunderstand ''the nature of the problem'', and ''what can be done'' at this point. These are incre...

2009-12-21T16:25:26Z

New page: '''Many people walk away from projects such as Newgon.com''' because they fundamentally misunderstand ''the nature of the problem'', and ''what can be done'' at this point. These are incre...

New page

'''Many people walk away from projects such as Newgon.com''' because they fundamentally misunderstand ''the nature of the problem'', and ''what can be done'' at this point. These are incredibly important questions, that we should constantly re-evaluate our answers to:

*'''''What''''' factors have conspired to bring about a state of affairs whereby intergenerational relationships involving adults outside of the familial/state structure are considered abusive unless proven otherwise? How come we are at a point where a man can be condemned to a life behind bars for what a prurient prosecutor reads into consensual tasting games with girls, fruit and treacle, for example?

*'''''Can''''' existing ''systems of thought'' (e.g. science, human or child rights, democratic activism based upon these) and ''power structures'' (western democracy, medico-legal hegemony) be the only mechanisms through which we affect social change?

Well, there is no short answer as to why things are the way they are now. We could, however, look at a number of factors that have conspired over recent millennia, centuries and years, intensifying in waves:

*Demise of the nomadic lifestyle, creation of settlements, farms and pain/pleasure dulling dairy and cereal rich diets.
*Augustinian and Judaeo-Christian sexual morality, and the creation of discreet "sexualities" and "sexual acts".
*The creation of nation states and the formation of contemporary, "democratic" power structures.
*The enlightenment, the rise of the scientific model, and the new role of psych' sciences as arbiters of normality/appropriacy.
*Intensification of notions of sexual purity as inherent to female youth (late C19th -).
*Slow demise and discrediting of political idealism (the great ideas/solutions - left and right), and plausibly "positive enterprises" for the western nation state. Rise of cynicism, "professional politics" and negative campaigning (slowly, since the 1950s).
*Medicalisation, commercialisation and further politicisation of the "child", "sex" and their incompatibility, including the extension of these ideas into a more gender-neutral territory. The ever-present need for scapegoats, coupled with AIDS sex-negativity and the vacating erasure of the homosexual as folk devil of choice (1970s -).
*Establishment of a media-saturated "culture of risk and fear", idolisation of negative utilitarianism (1990s -).

So how do we go about changing this order, and using its limitations and inbuilt assumptions to our advantage? How do we create a situation where age alone does not dictate what a person is allowed to do, including in the realm of physical relationships? How do we liberate these endless physical attractions and sensual expressions from the fascistic framework of "good and bad", "sexual" delineations that currently entrap and problematise them so?

Whilst "gay lib" was in part achieved via an appeal to pre-existing assumptions (human rights, science) people often forget the broader changes underpinning the movement, naively assuming that the system was right all along, only "waiting" and "searching" for the "truth", as it "progressed" in a timeless and linear fashion. They forget that before gay lib and other new social movements achieved their aims, there existed some fundamental and far-reaching assumptions that were as deeply ingrained as the status and "inherent nature" of the "child" for example, is now. The role of women and the role of religion in dictating social policy, for example, both had to be re-assessed before multiple social movements (including gay) could achieve their aims. On a more cynical note, the "Gay" had to become an acceptable and discreet, apparently assimilated mainstream ''social identity'', and not only that, but a ''marketable'' one.

No one should come to a site such as Newgon.com expecting to find a neat set of easily navigable tools for the undertaking of "contemporary democratic activism", in support of a pre-existing "new social movement". ''There is no movement'', and the form that such a movement will take has yet to be determined! We are putting ourselves at the forefront of debates on the form that said movement should take, and our agenda is clear:

:'''''Youth Rights''' and participation must be an integral part of our eventual activism (without a broader movement to fall back on, we are doomed), and we must seek to '''challenge''' pre-existing belief systems and power structures '''as well as taking advantage of them'''! And whilst labelling may be of use at a personal, and consensual group level, attempts to label a whole movement with terms such as "sex offender" (implying only legal persecution) or "child love" (implying only [[pedophilia]]/'''older''' partner status, and most problematically, exclusive [[adult]]hood) need to be dismissed at this early, formative stage. It doesn't take long to find individuals working for our cause who conform to no such label. Political libertarians and dissidents of various forms. Adults who as youngsters, experienced a physical relationship in terms that our culture does not allow them to express! Lets encourage such people, because without them, we are weaker and far easier to dismiss!''

Don't expect to rock the boat in the way that a more mainstream queer activist would! Many of us are constrained by a number of unique factors at this stage, so we must always seek to adapt. Because of these factors and the relatively small numbers involved, a web-roots site such as Newgon.com can not expect to affect an instant "concrete" and "measurable" change in wider society. Indeed, not in many years let alone within a few months of one person's decision to chat on its forum or upload some quotes to its wiki. Apart from personal networking, ''our sole objective'' is to compile once disparate, subversive information into a single resource, publish it, and keep these alternative ideas circulating. The formation of a solid, political movement is something that will happen over time, and something we are naturally placed to influence. But until the adequate capacity, consensus and manpower develops, we are right to focus on developing and circulating these core ideas in isolation.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:25, 23 December 2009
Line 8:		Line 8:

	*Demise of the nomadic lifestyle, creation of settlements, farms and pain/pleasure dulling dairy and cereal rich diets.		*Demise of the nomadic lifestyle, creation of settlements, farms and pain/pleasure dulling dairy and cereal rich diets.
	*Augustinian and Judaeo-Christian ~~sexual~~ morality, and ~~the creation~~ of ~~discreet "sexualities" and "sexual acts"~~.		*Augustinian and Judaeo-Christian morality and its tendency to delineate carnal temptation as something discrete, problematic and inherent to a humanity therefore in need of adherence to religious stricture.
	*The creation of nation states and the formation of contemporary, "democratic" power structures.		*The creation of nation states and the formation of contemporary, "democratic" power structures.
	*The enlightenment, the rise of the scientific model, ~~and~~ the new role of psych' sciences as arbiters of normality/appropriacy.		*The enlightenment, the rise of the scientific model, the new role of psych' sciences as arbiters of normality/appropriacy, and the accompanying conception of discrete "sexualities" and "sexual acts".
	*~~Intensification of~~ notions of sexual purity as inherent to female youth (late C19th -).		*Intensifying notions of sexual purity as something inherent to female youth (late C19th -).
	*Slow demise and discrediting of political idealism (the great ideas/solutions - left and right), and plausibly "positive enterprises" for the western nation state. Rise of cynicism, "professional politics" and negative campaigning (slowly, since the 1950s).		*Slow demise and discrediting of political idealism (the great ideas/solutions - left and right), and plausibly "positive enterprises" for the western nation state. Rise of cynicism, "professional politics" and negative campaigning (slowly, since the 1950s).
	*Medicalisation, commercialisation and further politicisation of the "child", "sex" and their incompatibility, including the extension of these ideas into a more gender-neutral territory. The ever-present need for scapegoats, coupled with ~~AIDS sex-~~negativity and ~~the vacating erasure of the homosexual as folk devil of choice (1970s~~ -).		*Medicalisation, commercialisation and further politicisation of the "child", "sex" and their incompatibility, including the extension of these ideas into a more gender-neutral territory. The ever-present need for scapegoats, coupled with the sexual negativity and religious revival stimulated by HIV-AIDS.
	*Establishment of a media-saturated "culture of risk and fear", idolisation of negative utilitarianism (1990s -).		*Establishment of a media-saturated "culture of risk and fear", idolisation of negative utilitarianism, scapegoating of the pedophile in the absence of a homosexual folk devil (1990s -).

	So how do we go about changing this order, and using its limitations and inbuilt assumptions to our advantage? How do we create a situation where age alone does not dictate what a person is allowed to do, ~~including~~ in the realm of physical relationships? How ~~do we~~ liberate ~~these~~ endless physical attractions and sensual expressions from the fascistic framework of "good and bad", "sexual" delineations that currently entrap and problematise them so?		So how do we go about changing this order, and using its limitations and inbuilt assumptions to our advantage? How do we create a situation where age alone does not dictate what a person is allowed to do, not least in the realm of physical relationships? How to liberate endless physical attractions and sensual expressions from the fascistic framework of "good and bad", "sexual" delineations that currently entrap and problematise them so?

	~~Whilst~~ "~~gay lib~~" ~~was in part achieved via an appeal~~ to pre-existing assumptions (human rights, ~~science)~~ people often ~~forget the broader~~ changes ~~underpinning~~ the movement, ~~naively assuming~~ that the ~~system~~ was ~~right all along, only~~ "~~waiting" and "searching" for the "truth~~", ~~as it~~ "~~progressed~~" in ~~a timeless~~ and ~~linear fashion~~. ~~They forget~~ that before gay lib and other new social movements achieved their aims, there existed ~~some~~ fundamental and far-reaching assumptions ~~that were~~ as deeply ingrained as the status and "inherent nature" of the "child" for example, is now. The role of women and the role of religion in dictating social policy, for example, both had to be re-assessed before multiple social movements ~~(including gay)~~ could achieve their ~~aims~~. On a more cynical note, the ~~"Gay" had~~ to ~~become an acceptable and discreet~~, ~~apparently assimilated mainstream ''~~social ~~identity''~~, and ~~not only that~~, ~~but a ''marketable'' one~~.		The new-found status (and positive identity) of homosexuals can be credited partly to politically expedient activists who "lawyered" their success by appealing to pre-existing assumptions, for example, human rights and scienc. However, people often overlook important contextual changes that underpinned and enabled the gay movement. All too often, it is assumed that the historical prevailing order - far from being fundamentally biased against a once oppressed group, was simply in need of some long sought-after "truths" that would facilitate linear, incremental "progress" in knowledge and justice. It is forgotten that before "gay lib" and other new social movements achieved their aims, there existed fundamental and far-reaching assumptions; assumptions as deeply ingrained as the status and "inherent nature" of the "child" for example, is now. The role of women and the role of religion in dictating social policy, for example, both had to be re-assessed before multiple social movements could achieve their objectives. Throughout this era, homosexuals were as much ''created'' as a positive, assimilated, mainstream gay ''social identity'' as they were liberated! On a more cynical note, this identity needed also to be marketable. Looking back on the homosexual movement helps us understand that in addition to politically expedient tactics (appeals to pre-existing thought systems, power structures, markets) political movements must draw upon broader social changes, and the radical claims and theories underlying them. Otherwise, we will struggle hopelessly against the tide.

	No one should come to a site such as Newgon.com expecting to find a neat set of easily navigable tools for the undertaking of "contemporary democratic activism", in support of a pre-existing "new social movement". ''~~There~~ is no movement'', and the form that such a movement will take has yet to be determined! We are putting ourselves at the forefront of debates ~~on the form that said~~ movement should ~~take~~, and our agenda is clear:		So, absent the favourable conditions described above, no one should come to a site such as Newgon.com expecting to find a neat set of easily navigable tools for the undertaking of "contemporary democratic activism" in support of a pre-existing "new social movement". At this point, ''there is no movement'', and the form that such a movement will take has yet to be determined! We are putting ourselves at the forefront of debates concerning how this movement should manifest itself, and our agenda is clear:

	:'''''Youth ~~Rights~~''' and participation must be an integral part of our eventual activism (without a broader movement to fall back on, we are doomed), and we must seek to '''challenge''' pre-existing belief systems and power structures '''as well as taking advantage of them'''! And whilst labelling may be of use at a personal, and consensual group level, attempts to label a whole movement with terms such as "sex offender" (implying only legal persecution) or "child love" (implying only [[pedophilia]]/'''older''' partner status, and most problematically, exclusive [[adult]]hood) need to be dismissed at this early, formative stage. It doesn't take long to find individuals working for our cause who conform to no such label. Political libertarians and dissidents of various forms. Adults who as youngsters, experienced a physical relationship in terms that our culture does not allow them to express! Lets encourage such people, because without them, we are weaker and far easier to dismiss!''		:'''''Youth rights''' and participation must be an integral part of our eventual activism (without a broader movement to fall back on, we are doomed), and we must seek to '''challenge''' pre-existing belief systems and power structures '''as well as taking advantage of them'''! And whilst labelling may be of use at a personal, and consensual group level, attempts to label a whole movement with terms such as "sex offender" (implying only legal persecution) or "child love" (implying only [[pedophilia]]/'''older''' partner status, and most problematically, exclusive [[adult]]hood) need to be dismissed at this early, formative stage. It doesn't take long to find individuals working for our cause who conform to no such label. Political libertarians and dissidents of various forms. Adults who as youngsters, experienced a physical relationship in terms that our culture does not allow them to express! Lets encourage such people, because without them, we are weaker and far easier to dismiss!''

	Don't expect to ~~rock the boat in the way that~~ a ~~more~~ mainstream queer activist ~~would~~! Many of us are constrained by ~~a number of unique factors at this stage~~, so we must always seek to adapt. Because of these factors and the relatively small numbers involved, a web-roots site such as Newgon.com can not expect to affect an instant "concrete" and "measurable" change in wider society. Indeed, not in many years let alone within a few months of one person's decision to chat on ~~its~~ forum or upload some quotes to ~~its~~ wiki. ~~Apart from personal~~ networking, ''our sole objective'' is to compile once disparate, subversive information into a single resource, publish it, and keep ~~these~~ alternative ideas circulating. The formation of a solid, political movement is something that will happen over time, and something we are naturally placed to influence. But until the adequate capacity, consensus and manpower develops, we are right to focus on exploration and consolidation.		Don't expect to go about your work, as would a mainstream "queer" activist! Many of us are constrained and chilled by what are sadly, unfavourable conditions, so we must always seek to adapt for maximum effect. Because of these factors and the relatively small numbers involved, a web-roots site such as Newgon.com can not expect to affect an instant "concrete" and "measurable" change in wider society. Indeed, we will not see such changes in many years, let alone within a few months of one person's decision to chat on our forum or upload some quotes to our wiki. Personal networking aside, ''our sole objective'' is to compile once disparate, subversive information into a single resource, publish it, and keep the alternative ideas circulating. The formation of a solid, political movement is something that will happen over time, and something we are naturally placed to influence. But until the adequate capacity, consensus and manpower develops, we are right to focus on exploration and consolidation.

			'''Visitors wishing to make the most of this site must - almost primarily - be prepared to work on ''themselves''. It is all-too easy for us to judge from a distance, to take a freeze-frame snapshot of 'the problem' - a stance that conveniently neglects to address ''our own'' participation in and internalisation of the ties that bind us. We must be prepared to rethink everything, to challenge our own received prejudices, our sedentary models of thought and indeed our apparently-stable identities, ''before'' we can claim to have found the new perspectives that are so desperately needed.'''