Research: Nonwestern Intergenerational Relationships - Revision history

Thorn: /* Melanesia */

2026-04-24T18:11:09Z

Melanesia

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	*'''Jan N. Bremmer (2021) [https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Man-Ancient-Greece-Rome/dp/3161590082 Becoming a Man in Ancient Greece and Rome. Essays on Myths and Rituals of Initiation.]'''(available via [[Help:Research_Resources#Information_Freedom_Companions\|Option 2]])		*'''Jan N. Bremmer (2021) [https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Man-Ancient-Greece-Rome/dp/3161590082 Becoming a Man in Ancient Greece and Rome. Essays on Myths and Rituals of Initiation.]'''(available via [[Help:Research_Resources#Information_Freedom_Companions\|Option 2]])
	::"This description [''see Williams' above''] is confirmed by more recent anthropological studies [See especially the many studies of G. Herdt] [...] the following points should be noted as important features: (1) we have here a case of pederasty, which should not be confused with modern homosexuality, as both initiators and novices normally marry afterwards; (2) the active pederasts are the novices of the previous initiation, and it may be of importance to note that it is these novices who usually play a prominent role in upholding discipline during the initiation; finally, (3) copulation, in which the novice is always the passive partner, takes place anally."		::"This description [''see Williams' above''] is confirmed by more recent anthropological studies [See especially the many studies of [[Gilbert Herdt\|G. Herdt]]] [...] the following points should be noted as important features: (1) we have here a case of pederasty, which should not be confused with modern homosexuality, as both initiators and novices normally marry afterwards; (2) the active pederasts are the novices of the previous initiation, and it may be of importance to note that it is these novices who usually play a prominent role in upholding discipline during the initiation; finally, (3) copulation, in which the novice is always the passive partner, takes place anally."

	==Philippines==		==Philippines==

Thorn: /* Melanesia */

2026-04-24T18:08:32Z

Melanesia

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	::"It is actually regarded as essential to the growing boy to be sodomized.[...] In the meantime it is enough to note that every male adult in the Morehead district has in his time constantly played both parts in this perversion. The boy is initiated to it at the bull-roarer ceremony [...] When he becomes adolescent his part is reversed and he may then sodomize his juniors, the new initiates to the bull-roarer."		::"It is actually regarded as essential to the growing boy to be sodomized.[...] In the meantime it is enough to note that every male adult in the Morehead district has in his time constantly played both parts in this perversion. The boy is initiated to it at the bull-roarer ceremony [...] When he becomes adolescent his part is reversed and he may then sodomize his juniors, the new initiates to the bull-roarer."
	::"Gambadi informants describe the initial occasion more vividly. The father bids his son stoop to drink at a pool and as he does so catches him at a disadvantage. [...] It is to be noted that nowadays boys are not sodomized by their own fathers. The restriction of moiety exogamy is observed in sodomy as it is in marriage [...]"		::"Gambadi informants describe the initial occasion more vividly. The father bids his son stoop to drink at a pool and as he does so catches him at a disadvantage. [...] It is to be noted that nowadays boys are not sodomized by their own fathers. The restriction of moiety exogamy is observed in sodomy as it is in marriage [...]"

			*'''Jan N. Bremmer (2021) [https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Man-Ancient-Greece-Rome/dp/3161590082 Becoming a Man in Ancient Greece and Rome. Essays on Myths and Rituals of Initiation.]'''(available via [[Help:Research_Resources#Information_Freedom_Companions\|Option 2]])
			::"This description [''see Williams' above''] is confirmed by more recent anthropological studies [See especially the many studies of G. Herdt] [...] the following points should be noted as important features: (1) we have here a case of pederasty, which should not be confused with modern homosexuality, as both initiators and novices normally marry afterwards; (2) the active pederasts are the novices of the previous initiation, and it may be of importance to note that it is these novices who usually play a prominent role in upholding discipline during the initiation; finally, (3) copulation, in which the novice is always the passive partner, takes place anally."

	==Philippines==		==Philippines==

Thorn: /* Melanesia */

2026-04-24T17:58:39Z

Melanesia

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	*:"The universal male/male pedophilia of the Sambia demonstrates the sexological plasticity of the human organism and the making of pedophilia into the social norm."		*:"The universal male/male pedophilia of the Sambia demonstrates the sexological plasticity of the human organism and the making of pedophilia into the social norm."

	* '''Williams, F.E. (1969) Papuans of the Trans-Fly. ''Oxford'''''		*'''Williams, F.E. (1969) Papuans of the Trans-Fly. ''Oxford'''''
	::" It is actually regarded as essential to the growing boy to be sodomized.[...] In the meantime it is enough to note that every male adult in the Morehead district has in his time constantly played both parts in this perversion. The boy is initiated to it at the bull-roarer ceremony [...] When he becomes adolescent his part is reversed and he may then sodomize his juniors, the new initiates to the bull-roarer."		::"It is actually regarded as essential to the growing boy to be sodomized.[...] In the meantime it is enough to note that every male adult in the Morehead district has in his time constantly played both parts in this perversion. The boy is initiated to it at the bull-roarer ceremony [...] When he becomes adolescent his part is reversed and he may then sodomize his juniors, the new initiates to the bull-roarer."
			::"Gambadi informants describe the initial occasion more vividly. The father bids his son stoop to drink at a pool and as he does so catches him at a disadvantage. [...] It is to be noted that nowadays boys are not sodomized by their own fathers. The restriction of moiety exogamy is observed in sodomy as it is in marriage [...]"

	==Philippines==		==Philippines==

Thorn: /* Melanesia */

2026-04-24T17:50:41Z

Melanesia

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	*:"The universal male/male pedophilia of the Sambia demonstrates the sexological plasticity of the human organism and the making of pedophilia into the social norm."		*:"The universal male/male pedophilia of the Sambia demonstrates the sexological plasticity of the human organism and the making of pedophilia into the social norm."

	* '''F.E. ~~Williams~~ (1969) Papuans of the Trans-Fly'''		* '''Williams, F.E. (1969) Papuans of the Trans-Fly. ''Oxford'''''
	::" It is actually regarded as essential to the growing boy to be sodomized.[...] In the meantime it is enough to note that		::" It is actually regarded as essential to the growing boy to be sodomized.[...] In the meantime it is enough to note that every male adult in the Morehead district has in his time constantly played both parts in this perversion. The boy is initiated to it at the bull-roarer ceremony [...] When he becomes adolescent his part is reversed and he may then sodomize his juniors, the new initiates to the bull-roarer."
	every male adult in the Morehead district has in his time constantly played both parts in this perversion. The boy is initiated to it at the bull-roarer ceremony [...] When he becomes adolescent his part is reversed and he may then sodomize his juniors, the new initiates to the bull-roarer."

	==Philippines==		==Philippines==

Thorn: /* Melanesia */

2026-04-24T17:48:29Z

Melanesia

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	*:"The cultural tradition of pedophilia may belong not just to a small enclave of a population but also to an entire community, as in the case of various tribal peoples scattered across the Pacific in Melanesia and New Guinea (Herdt, 1984). The Sambia of the New Guinea Highlands (Herdt, 1981) are such a tribe. Their ancient customs as fierce head-hunting warriors survived European contact until after World War II. According to their folklore concerning their children, a boy could not become a warrior if he stayed living with women and children after age 8. So, he was taken into the men's longhouse to remain in the company of males only, there to be subjected to the rituals of indoctrination and initiation. As a baby, he had been nourished by woman's milk. As a juvenile, he would have to be nourished with men's milk so that his body would mature in the way that maturation occurs during puberty. It was an obligation of youths still too young to be married not to waste their semen but to have it sucked out of their penises by the prepubertal boys who, once able to ejaculate themselves, would nourish those still younger. At age 19, the age of marriage, their two-way experience of androphilic pedophilia would cease, and their lives would become heterosexual with an adult partner."		*:"The cultural tradition of pedophilia may belong not just to a small enclave of a population but also to an entire community, as in the case of various tribal peoples scattered across the Pacific in Melanesia and New Guinea (Herdt, 1984). The Sambia of the New Guinea Highlands (Herdt, 1981) are such a tribe. Their ancient customs as fierce head-hunting warriors survived European contact until after World War II. According to their folklore concerning their children, a boy could not become a warrior if he stayed living with women and children after age 8. So, he was taken into the men's longhouse to remain in the company of males only, there to be subjected to the rituals of indoctrination and initiation. As a baby, he had been nourished by woman's milk. As a juvenile, he would have to be nourished with men's milk so that his body would mature in the way that maturation occurs during puberty. It was an obligation of youths still too young to be married not to waste their semen but to have it sucked out of their penises by the prepubertal boys who, once able to ejaculate themselves, would nourish those still younger. At age 19, the age of marriage, their two-way experience of androphilic pedophilia would cease, and their lives would become heterosexual with an adult partner."
	*:"The universal male/male pedophilia of the Sambia demonstrates the sexological plasticity of the human organism and the making of pedophilia into the social norm."		*:"The universal male/male pedophilia of the Sambia demonstrates the sexological plasticity of the human organism and the making of pedophilia into the social norm."

			* '''F.E. Williams (1969) Papuans of the Trans-Fly'''
			::" It is actually regarded as essential to the growing boy to be sodomized.[...] In the meantime it is enough to note that
			every male adult in the Morehead district has in his time constantly played both parts in this perversion. The boy is initiated to it at the bull-roarer ceremony [...] When he becomes adolescent his part is reversed and he may then sodomize his juniors, the new initiates to the bull-roarer."

	==Philippines==		==Philippines==

Thorn: /* Nigeria */

2025-09-05T10:07:23Z

Nigeria

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	*:"Among the Kadar of northern Nigeria, as reported by M. G. Smith (1968),<ref>M. G. Smith (1968). 'Secondary Marriage among Kadera and Kagoro.' In ''Marriage, Family, and Residence'', Bohannan, Paul and Middleton, J., eds. pp. 109-130. Garden City, N.Y.: Published for the American Museum of Natural History by the Natural History Press.</ref> most marriages result from infant betrothals. These matches are arranged by the fathers of the bride and groom when the girl is 3 to 6 years old. Ten years or more may elapse before the bride goes to live with her betrothed. During this time, a Kadar girl is not unlikely to become pregnant. This will disturb no one, even if the biological father is a man other than her husband:		*:"Among the Kadar of northern Nigeria, as reported by M. G. Smith (1968),<ref>M. G. Smith (1968). 'Secondary Marriage among Kadera and Kagoro.' In ''Marriage, Family, and Residence'', Bohannan, Paul and Middleton, J., eds. pp. 109-130. Garden City, N.Y.: Published for the American Museum of Natural History by the Natural History Press.</ref> most marriages result from infant betrothals. These matches are arranged by the fathers of the bride and groom when the girl is 3 to 6 years old. Ten years or more may elapse before the bride goes to live with her betrothed. During this time, a Kadar girl is not unlikely to become pregnant. This will disturb no one, even if the biological father is a man other than her husband:
	*::''Kadar set no value on premarital chastity'' (1968, p. 113)."		*::''Kadar set no value on premarital chastity'' (1968, p. 113)."

			== Kenya and Tanzania ==

			=== Massai ===
			*'''Carles Feixa (2011). Past and present of adolescence in society: The ‘teen brain’ debate in perspective. ''Neuroscience & Biobehavioral Reviews'', Volume 35, Issue 8'''
			::"Sexual intercourse with [postpubertal] girls is admitted as long as they do not become pregnant."

	==India==		==India==

Thorn: /* Brazil */

2025-09-05T09:35:18Z

Brazil

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:35, 5 September 2025
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	*'''Daniel Everett (2008). [https://books.feedvu.com/fullbook/dont-sleep-there-are-snakes-life-and-language-in-the-amazonian-jungle-pdf-2.html?page=16&part=1 ''Dont Sleep, There Are Snakes: Life and Language in the Amazonian Jungle'']. Chapter 16 of 34.'''		*'''Daniel Everett (2008). [https://books.feedvu.com/fullbook/dont-sleep-there-are-snakes-life-and-language-in-the-amazonian-jungle-pdf-2.html?page=16&part=1 ''Dont Sleep, There Are Snakes: Life and Language in the Amazonian Jungle'']. Chapter 16 of 34.'''
	*:"Relations between men and women and boys and girls, whether married or not, are always cordial and often marked by light to heavy flirting. Sexually it is the same. So long as children are not forced or hurt, there is no prohibition against their participating in sex with adults. I remember once talking to Xisaoxoi, a Pirahã man in his late thirties, when a nine- or ten-year-old girl was standing beside him. As we talked, she rubbed her hands sensually over his chest and back and rubbed his crotch area through his thin, worn nylon shorts. Both were enjoying themselves. “What’s she doing?” I asked superfluously. “Oh, she’s just playing. We play together. When she’s big she will be my wife” was his nonchalant reply—and, indeed, after the girl went through puberty, they were married."		*:"Relations between men and women and boys and girls, whether married or not, are always cordial and often marked by light to heavy flirting. Sexually it is the same. So long as children are not forced or hurt, there is no prohibition against their participating in sex with adults. I remember once talking to Xisaoxoi, a Pirahã man in his late thirties, when a nine- or ten-year-old girl was standing beside him. As we talked, she rubbed her hands sensually over his chest and back and rubbed his crotch area through his thin, worn nylon shorts. Both were enjoying themselves. “What’s she doing?” I asked superfluously. “Oh, she’s just playing. We play together. When she’s big she will be my wife” was his nonchalant reply—and, indeed, after the girl went through puberty, they were married."

			* '''Daniel Everett (2016). ''Dark matter of the mind : the culturally articulated unconscious.'' Chapter 3'''
			::"Pirahã young people begin to engage sexually, though apparently not in full intercourse, from early on. Touching and being touched seem to be common for Pirahã boys and girls from about seven years of age on. They are all sexually active by puberty, with older men and women frequently initiating younger girls and boys, respectively. There is no evidence that the children then or as adults find this pedophilia the least bit traumatic."

	==Argentina==		==Argentina==

Thorn: /* GUS, a world atlas: Growing Up Sexually */

2025-02-22T12:07:13Z

GUS, a world atlas: Growing Up Sexually

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:07, 22 February 2025
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	==GUS, a world atlas: Growing Up Sexually==		==GUS, a world atlas: Growing Up Sexually==

	The range and detail of accounts involved in this page will only serve as a brief demonstration of non-western diversity in intergenerational relationships. Many examples from anthropology involve [[Sexual rites of passage]]. If readers are seeking a broader, more detailed and integrated study, they may find [[Diederik Janssen]]'s [http://www.sexarchive.info/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/GUS_MAIN_INDEX.HTM ''Growing Up Sexually''] more appropriate, or ''[https://greek-love.com/ Greek Love: Pederasty throughout the ages]'', re. homosexuality.		The range and detail of accounts involved in this page will only serve as a brief demonstration of non-western diversity in intergenerational relationships. Many examples from anthropology involve [[Sexual rites of passage]]. If readers are seeking a broader, more detailed and integrated study, they may find [[Diederik Janssen]]'s [http://www.sexarchive.info/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/GUS_MAIN_INDEX.HTM ''Growing Up Sexually''] ([http://www.sexarchive.info/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/GROWINGUPSEXUALLY1.ZIP entire Vol 1] in zipped PDF) more appropriate, or ''[https://greek-love.com/ Greek Love: Pederasty throughout the ages]'', re. homosexuality.

	==Brazil==		==Brazil==

Xtjvimds16dovrfc at 16:25, 27 January 2025

2025-01-27T16:25:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:25, 27 January 2025
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	=== Azande ===		=== Azande ===
	*'''Evans-Pritchard, E. E. (1970). [https://sci-hub.st/10.2307/672861 Sexual Inversion among the Azande. American Anthropologist], 72(6), 1428–1434.'''		*'''Evans-Pritchard, E. E. (1970). [https://sci-hub.st/10.2307/672861 Sexual Inversion among the Azande. American Anthropologist], 72(6), 1428–1434.'''
	:: "It was the custom for members of bachelor companies, some of whom would always be living in barracks at court, to take boy-wives. [...] Most young men consequently married late--well into their twenties and thirties-and, because girls were engaged (in a legal sense married) very young, often at birth, the only way youths could obtain satisfaction from a woman was in adultery. [...] The boys performed many of the smaller services a woman performs daily for her husband [...] Also, the boywife carried his husband's shield when on a journey. It should be understood that he performed these services lest it might be thought that the relationship was entirely of a sexual nature; it will be appreciated that it had an educational side to it. With regard to the sexual side, at night the boy slept with his lover, who had intercourse with him between his thighs (Azande expressed disgust at the suggestion of anal penetration). The boys got what pleasure they could by friction of their organs on the husband's belly or groin. However, even though there was this side to the relationship, it was clear from Zande accounts that there was also the comfort of a nightly sharing of the bed with a companion."		*: "It was the custom for members of bachelor companies, some of whom would always be living in barracks at court, to take boy-wives. [...] Most young men consequently married late--well into their twenties and thirties-and, because girls were engaged (in a legal sense married) very young, often at birth, the only way youths could obtain satisfaction from a woman was in adultery. [...] The boys performed many of the smaller services a woman performs daily for her husband [...] Also, the boywife carried his husband's shield when on a journey. It should be understood that he performed these services lest it might be thought that the relationship was entirely of a sexual nature; it will be appreciated that it had an educational side to it. With regard to the sexual side, at night the boy slept with his lover, who had intercourse with him between his thighs (Azande expressed disgust at the suggestion of anal penetration). The boys got what pleasure they could by friction of their organs on the husband's belly or groin. However, even though there was this side to the relationship, it was clear from Zande accounts that there was also the comfort of a nightly sharing of the bed with a companion."

	== See also ==		== See also ==

Thorn: /* See also */

2025-01-27T12:09:18Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:09, 27 January 2025
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	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Walter_L._Williams#The_Spirit_and_the_Flesh_%281986%29 \| The Spirit and the Flesh (1986)] - the book by Walter L. Williams with a broad section on pederasty among non-western societies		* [https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Walter_L._Williams#The_Spirit_and_the_Flesh_%281986%29 The Spirit and the Flesh (1986)] - the book by Walter L. Williams with a broad section on pederasty among non-western societies
	* [[Gilbert_Herdt\|Gilbert Herdt]] - anthropologist who studied ritualized intergenerational homosexuality in Melanesia		* [[Gilbert_Herdt\|Gilbert Herdt]] - anthropologist who studied ritualized intergenerational homosexuality in Melanesia