Testimony: Adult Female with Minor - Revision history

Prue at 01:13, 5 October 2026

2026-10-05T01:13:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:13, 5 October 2026
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	*:"New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea, according to a report.		*:"New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea, according to a report.

	*:The teen insists that Laura Caron should not be facing charges, and hopes that they will someday be a family.		:The teen insists that Laura Caron should not be facing charges, and hopes that they will someday be a family.

	*:The teen, who blamed his father for the investigation, said that Caron was actually a positive influence in his life.		:The teen, who blamed his father for the investigation, said that Caron was actually a positive influence in his life.

	*:“I love her with all my heart,” he said. “She was there for me and my family."		:“I love her with all my heart,” he said. “She was there for me and my family."

	*'''Film director Ingmar Bergman in his autobiography, ''Mein Leben'' (pp. 12-13, cited in [[Paidika]] 11, pp. 19-20)'''		*'''Film director Ingmar Bergman in his autobiography, ''Mein Leben'' (pp. 12-13, cited in [[Paidika]] 11, pp. 19-20)'''

Prue at 01:12, 5 October 2026

2026-10-05T01:12:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:12, 5 October 2026
Line 116:		Line 116:

	*'''[https://www.thecityceleb.com/blog/teen-defends-teacher-accused-of-sexual-abuse-calls-for-charges-to-be-dropped/ A New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea]''' (2025, [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-student-who-was-just-13-when-he-got-nj-teacher-pregnant-wants-charges-against-her-dropped-wants-to-be-family-together-report/ar-AA1yQ96N MSN quoted below - link is dead] but various other sources report on the case).		*'''[https://www.thecityceleb.com/blog/teen-defends-teacher-accused-of-sexual-abuse-calls-for-charges-to-be-dropped/ A New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea]''' (2025, [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-student-who-was-just-13-when-he-got-nj-teacher-pregnant-wants-charges-against-her-dropped-wants-to-be-family-together-report/ar-AA1yQ96N MSN quoted below - link is dead] but various other sources report on the case).
	*:" New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea, according to a report.		*:"New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea, according to a report.

	:The teen insists that Laura Caron should not be facing charges, and hopes that they will someday be a family.		*:The teen insists that Laura Caron should not be facing charges, and hopes that they will someday be a family.

	:The teen, who blamed his father for the investigation, said that Caron was actually a positive influence in his life.		*:The teen, who blamed his father for the investigation, said that Caron was actually a positive influence in his life.

	:“I love her with all my heart,” he said. “She was there for me and my family."		*:“I love her with all my heart,” he said. “She was there for me and my family."

	*'''Film director Ingmar Bergman in his autobiography, ''Mein Leben'' (pp. 12-13, cited in [[Paidika]] 11, pp. 19-20)'''		*'''Film director Ingmar Bergman in his autobiography, ''Mein Leben'' (pp. 12-13, cited in [[Paidika]] 11, pp. 19-20)'''

Prue at 01:11, 5 October 2026

2026-10-05T01:11:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:11, 5 October 2026
Line 114:		Line 114:
	*'''Karen Ellis (37) with student Ben Dunbar (15), as recounted by [[Steven Angelides]] (2008) in "[http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a901992783~db=all~order=page Sexual offences against 'children' and the question of judicial gender bias]", ''Australian Feminist Studies'', 23(57), pp. 359-373.'''		*'''Karen Ellis (37) with student Ben Dunbar (15), as recounted by [[Steven Angelides]] (2008) in "[http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a901992783~db=all~order=page Sexual offences against 'children' and the question of judicial gender bias]", ''Australian Feminist Studies'', 23(57), pp. 359-373.'''
	*:"'In the way that it happened, you could say I was a predator', asserted Dunbar confidently to a defiant Liz Hayes in a Sixty Minutes interview two years after the offences (2005). 'I mean, I went after her … I took my chances. And I just went for it.' But Hayes would not have a bar of any inversion of the standard 'adult-perpetrator'/'child-victim' formula. 'But you know that's impossible', Hayes responded, 'You can never be the predator. You know that, don't you?' Despite the arrogant and didactic tone, Hayes's rhetorical question highlights how a narrative of inevitable child sexual abuse often functions to determine the normative boundaries of adolescent subjectivity at the same time as erasing the experiences of actual adolescents themselves. Dunbar was at pains to stress the misfit between the legal categories subsuming him (child, victim) and his experience: 'Well, apparently I'm the victim. You know that's …' But before he could even finish, Hayes cut him off. 'But you are. Not "apparently". You are.' Still emphasising a distinction ignored by Hayes between legal definition and what it seeks to 'capture', Dunbar replied, 'By the law, yeah, yep.' Sixty Minutes then provided him with a rare moment to articulate his position, albeit in an aggressively infantilising context, and one reflecting his experience at the hands of the law. 'You don't see yourself as a victim?' inquired Hayes cynically. 'Definitely not, no', he said with conviction. In his letter to the court in support of Ellis, Dunbar had pre-empted the question of potential harm and victim status: 'The only way this will affect me is if she was to go to prison or was harshly sentenced. I would feel guilty because I know that she is a good person … At all times I knew what I was doing and wanted to do it'."		*:"'In the way that it happened, you could say I was a predator', asserted Dunbar confidently to a defiant Liz Hayes in a Sixty Minutes interview two years after the offences (2005). 'I mean, I went after her … I took my chances. And I just went for it.' But Hayes would not have a bar of any inversion of the standard 'adult-perpetrator'/'child-victim' formula. 'But you know that's impossible', Hayes responded, 'You can never be the predator. You know that, don't you?' Despite the arrogant and didactic tone, Hayes's rhetorical question highlights how a narrative of inevitable child sexual abuse often functions to determine the normative boundaries of adolescent subjectivity at the same time as erasing the experiences of actual adolescents themselves. Dunbar was at pains to stress the misfit between the legal categories subsuming him (child, victim) and his experience: 'Well, apparently I'm the victim. You know that's …' But before he could even finish, Hayes cut him off. 'But you are. Not "apparently". You are.' Still emphasising a distinction ignored by Hayes between legal definition and what it seeks to 'capture', Dunbar replied, 'By the law, yeah, yep.' Sixty Minutes then provided him with a rare moment to articulate his position, albeit in an aggressively infantilising context, and one reflecting his experience at the hands of the law. 'You don't see yourself as a victim?' inquired Hayes cynically. 'Definitely not, no', he said with conviction. In his letter to the court in support of Ellis, Dunbar had pre-empted the question of potential harm and victim status: 'The only way this will affect me is if she was to go to prison or was harshly sentenced. I would feel guilty because I know that she is a good person … At all times I knew what I was doing and wanted to do it'."

	*'''Film director Ingmar Bergman in his autobiography, ''Mein Leben'' (pp. 12-13, cited in [[Paidika]] 11, pp. 19-20)'''
	*:"One evening I was to be bathed. The housemaid filled the bathtub and poured something in that smelled good. Alla Pitreus [widowed acquaintance of parents] knocked on the door and asked if I had fallen asleep. When I did not answer, she entered. She was wearing a green bathrobe, which she immediately took off. She explained that she wanted to scrub my back. I turned around and she also stepped into the bath, soaped me, brushed me with a hard brush, and rinsed me with her soft hands. Then she took my hand, drew it to her, and put it between her thighs. My heart was beating in my throat. She spread my fingers and pressed them deeper into her lap. With her other hand she clasped my sex, startled and wide awake. She cautiously drew back the foreskin and carefully removed a white material that had collected around the glans. Everything was pleasant and also did not frighten me in the least. She held me firmly between her strong, soft thighs, and without resistance and without fear I let myself sway in a strong, almost painful, pleasure. I was eight or perhaps nine years old."

	*'''[https://www.thecityceleb.com/blog/teen-defends-teacher-accused-of-sexual-abuse-calls-for-charges-to-be-dropped/ A New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea]''' (2025, [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-student-who-was-just-13-when-he-got-nj-teacher-pregnant-wants-charges-against-her-dropped-wants-to-be-family-together-report/ar-AA1yQ96N MSN quoted below - link is dead] but various other sources report on the case).		*'''[https://www.thecityceleb.com/blog/teen-defends-teacher-accused-of-sexual-abuse-calls-for-charges-to-be-dropped/ A New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea]''' (2025, [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-student-who-was-just-13-when-he-got-nj-teacher-pregnant-wants-charges-against-her-dropped-wants-to-be-family-together-report/ar-AA1yQ96N MSN quoted below - link is dead] but various other sources report on the case).
	*:" New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea, according to a report.		*:" New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea, according to a report.

	The teen insists that Laura Caron should not be facing charges, and hopes that they will someday be a family.		:The teen insists that Laura Caron should not be facing charges, and hopes that they will someday be a family.

			:The teen, who blamed his father for the investigation, said that Caron was actually a positive influence in his life.

	~~The teen, who blamed his father for the investigation~~, said ~~that Caron~~ was ~~actually a positive influence in his life~~.		:“I love her with all my heart,” he said. “She was there for me and my family."

	~~“I love~~ her ~~with all~~ my heart,~~” he said~~. ~~“She~~ was ~~there for~~ me and ~~my family~~."		*'''Film director Ingmar Bergman in his autobiography, ''Mein Leben'' (pp. 12-13, cited in [[Paidika]] 11, pp. 19-20)'''
			*:"One evening I was to be bathed. The housemaid filled the bathtub and poured something in that smelled good. Alla Pitreus [widowed acquaintance of parents] knocked on the door and asked if I had fallen asleep. When I did not answer, she entered. She was wearing a green bathrobe, which she immediately took off. She explained that she wanted to scrub my back. I turned around and she also stepped into the bath, soaped me, brushed me with a hard brush, and rinsed me with her soft hands. Then she took my hand, drew it to her, and put it between her thighs. My heart was beating in my throat. She spread my fingers and pressed them deeper into her lap. With her other hand she clasped my sex, startled and wide awake. She cautiously drew back the foreskin and carefully removed a white material that had collected around the glans. Everything was pleasant and also did not frighten me in the least. She held me firmly between her strong, soft thighs, and without resistance and without fear I let myself sway in a strong, almost painful, pleasure. I was eight or perhaps nine years old."

	*'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20090325082637/http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_1126831.html?menu=entertainment.celebrities Anthony Kiedis (musician)]'''		*'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20090325082637/http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_1126831.html?menu=entertainment.celebrities Anthony Kiedis (musician)]'''

Prue at 01:10, 5 October 2026

2026-10-05T01:10:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:10, 5 October 2026
Line 117:		Line 117:
	*'''Film director Ingmar Bergman in his autobiography, ''Mein Leben'' (pp. 12-13, cited in [[Paidika]] 11, pp. 19-20)'''		*'''Film director Ingmar Bergman in his autobiography, ''Mein Leben'' (pp. 12-13, cited in [[Paidika]] 11, pp. 19-20)'''
	*:"One evening I was to be bathed. The housemaid filled the bathtub and poured something in that smelled good. Alla Pitreus [widowed acquaintance of parents] knocked on the door and asked if I had fallen asleep. When I did not answer, she entered. She was wearing a green bathrobe, which she immediately took off. She explained that she wanted to scrub my back. I turned around and she also stepped into the bath, soaped me, brushed me with a hard brush, and rinsed me with her soft hands. Then she took my hand, drew it to her, and put it between her thighs. My heart was beating in my throat. She spread my fingers and pressed them deeper into her lap. With her other hand she clasped my sex, startled and wide awake. She cautiously drew back the foreskin and carefully removed a white material that had collected around the glans. Everything was pleasant and also did not frighten me in the least. She held me firmly between her strong, soft thighs, and without resistance and without fear I let myself sway in a strong, almost painful, pleasure. I was eight or perhaps nine years old."		*:"One evening I was to be bathed. The housemaid filled the bathtub and poured something in that smelled good. Alla Pitreus [widowed acquaintance of parents] knocked on the door and asked if I had fallen asleep. When I did not answer, she entered. She was wearing a green bathrobe, which she immediately took off. She explained that she wanted to scrub my back. I turned around and she also stepped into the bath, soaped me, brushed me with a hard brush, and rinsed me with her soft hands. Then she took my hand, drew it to her, and put it between her thighs. My heart was beating in my throat. She spread my fingers and pressed them deeper into her lap. With her other hand she clasped my sex, startled and wide awake. She cautiously drew back the foreskin and carefully removed a white material that had collected around the glans. Everything was pleasant and also did not frighten me in the least. She held me firmly between her strong, soft thighs, and without resistance and without fear I let myself sway in a strong, almost painful, pleasure. I was eight or perhaps nine years old."

			*'''[https://www.thecityceleb.com/blog/teen-defends-teacher-accused-of-sexual-abuse-calls-for-charges-to-be-dropped/ A New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea]''' (2025, [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-student-who-was-just-13-when-he-got-nj-teacher-pregnant-wants-charges-against-her-dropped-wants-to-be-family-together-report/ar-AA1yQ96N MSN quoted below - link is dead] but various other sources report on the case).
			*:" New Jersey teenager who was 13 when he allegedly fathered a baby with his former teacher is speaking out — and insisting that the sexual relationship was his idea, according to a report.

			The teen insists that Laura Caron should not be facing charges, and hopes that they will someday be a family.

			The teen, who blamed his father for the investigation, said that Caron was actually a positive influence in his life.

			“I love her with all my heart,” he said. “She was there for me and my family."

	*'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20090325082637/http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_1126831.html?menu=entertainment.celebrities Anthony Kiedis (musician)]'''		*'''[http://web.archive.org/web/20090325082637/http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_1126831.html?menu=entertainment.celebrities Anthony Kiedis (musician)]'''

Prue at 01:07, 5 October 2026

2026-10-05T01:07:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:07, 5 October 2026
Line 112:		Line 112:
	*:"'My first serious relationship was with a much older woman. She was twenty-six and I was thirteen, but she thought I was fifteen. It was in the summer in New Hampshire. She was an artist, and she really loved me. We were very serious. I loved her a great deal too. I couldn't believe anything so big could happen to me.' The boy's father discovered, however, what had happened, and put an end to the summer romance. 'I never, ever saw her again, never talked to her again. I still think about her once in a while.'"		*:"'My first serious relationship was with a much older woman. She was twenty-six and I was thirteen, but she thought I was fifteen. It was in the summer in New Hampshire. She was an artist, and she really loved me. We were very serious. I loved her a great deal too. I couldn't believe anything so big could happen to me.' The boy's father discovered, however, what had happened, and put an end to the summer romance. 'I never, ever saw her again, never talked to her again. I still think about her once in a while.'"

	*'''Karen Ellis (37) with student Ben Dunbar (15), as recounted by Steven Angelides (2008) in "[http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a901992783~db=all~order=page Sexual offences against 'children' and the question of judicial gender bias]", ''Australian Feminist Studies'', 23(57), pp. 359-373.'''		*'''Karen Ellis (37) with student Ben Dunbar (15), as recounted by [[Steven Angelides]] (2008) in "[http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a901992783~db=all~order=page Sexual offences against 'children' and the question of judicial gender bias]", ''Australian Feminist Studies'', 23(57), pp. 359-373.'''
	*:"'In the way that it happened, you could say I was a predator', asserted Dunbar confidently to a defiant Liz Hayes in a Sixty Minutes interview two years after the offences (2005). 'I mean, I went after her … I took my chances. And I just went for it.' But Hayes would not have a bar of any inversion of the standard 'adult-perpetrator'/'child-victim' formula. 'But you know that's impossible', Hayes responded, 'You can never be the predator. You know that, don't you?' Despite the arrogant and didactic tone, Hayes's rhetorical question highlights how a narrative of inevitable child sexual abuse often functions to determine the normative boundaries of adolescent subjectivity at the same time as erasing the experiences of actual adolescents themselves. Dunbar was at pains to stress the misfit between the legal categories subsuming him (child, victim) and his experience: 'Well, apparently I'm the victim. You know that's …' But before he could even finish, Hayes cut him off. 'But you are. Not "apparently". You are.' Still emphasising a distinction ignored by Hayes between legal definition and what it seeks to 'capture', Dunbar replied, 'By the law, yeah, yep.' Sixty Minutes then provided him with a rare moment to articulate his position, albeit in an aggressively infantilising context, and one reflecting his experience at the hands of the law. 'You don't see yourself as a victim?' inquired Hayes cynically. 'Definitely not, no', he said with conviction. In his letter to the court in support of Ellis, Dunbar had pre-empted the question of potential harm and victim status: 'The only way this will affect me is if she was to go to prison or was harshly sentenced. I would feel guilty because I know that she is a good person … At all times I knew what I was doing and wanted to do it'."		*:"'In the way that it happened, you could say I was a predator', asserted Dunbar confidently to a defiant Liz Hayes in a Sixty Minutes interview two years after the offences (2005). 'I mean, I went after her … I took my chances. And I just went for it.' But Hayes would not have a bar of any inversion of the standard 'adult-perpetrator'/'child-victim' formula. 'But you know that's impossible', Hayes responded, 'You can never be the predator. You know that, don't you?' Despite the arrogant and didactic tone, Hayes's rhetorical question highlights how a narrative of inevitable child sexual abuse often functions to determine the normative boundaries of adolescent subjectivity at the same time as erasing the experiences of actual adolescents themselves. Dunbar was at pains to stress the misfit between the legal categories subsuming him (child, victim) and his experience: 'Well, apparently I'm the victim. You know that's …' But before he could even finish, Hayes cut him off. 'But you are. Not "apparently". You are.' Still emphasising a distinction ignored by Hayes between legal definition and what it seeks to 'capture', Dunbar replied, 'By the law, yeah, yep.' Sixty Minutes then provided him with a rare moment to articulate his position, albeit in an aggressively infantilising context, and one reflecting his experience at the hands of the law. 'You don't see yourself as a victim?' inquired Hayes cynically. 'Definitely not, no', he said with conviction. In his letter to the court in support of Ellis, Dunbar had pre-empted the question of potential harm and victim status: 'The only way this will affect me is if she was to go to prison or was harshly sentenced. I would feel guilty because I know that she is a good person … At all times I knew what I was doing and wanted to do it'."

Prue at 20:48, 2 July 2026

2026-07-02T20:48:58Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:48, 2 July 2026
Line 6:		Line 6:
	*:She initiated the relationship and did not see it as interfering with its pedagogical function. The relationship between the two, however, was forcibly interrupted by a complaint from the teenager's mother and the girlfriend was accused of rape of a vulnerable person, even under strong protests from the alleged victim.		*:She initiated the relationship and did not see it as interfering with its pedagogical function. The relationship between the two, however, was forcibly interrupted by a complaint from the teenager's mother and the girlfriend was accused of rape of a vulnerable person, even under strong protests from the alleged victim.
	*'''Amy (16, [https://www.brongersma.info/images/Anthology_01.pdf commenting on a relationship with her teacher when aged 12]) in "One Teenager in Ten: Writings by Gay and Lesbian Youth"''':		*'''Amy (16, [https://www.brongersma.info/images/Anthology_01.pdf commenting on a relationship with her teacher when aged 12]) in "One Teenager in Ten: Writings by Gay and Lesbian Youth"''':
	*:"I am a sixteen‑year‑old lesbian. I have been a lesbian since I was twelve. I had known my dance teacher for three years before she brought me out. I was very attracted to her when I first saw her, and from then on, I grew to be more and more in love with her. When I was ten, I had a crush on a friend of my older sister, and some time after that another crush on a cousin of mine. But these didnʹt last long. I always wanted to be near my teacher, dance well for her, and have her touch me! Often while falling asleep at night I would think about her holding me in her arms while Iʹd go to sleep or about her kissing me. I didnʹt know anything about lesbians then, so I didnʹt associate my feelings with anything but my love for her. We became lovers the weekend I was asked to give a special dance presentation in another city. My dance instructor chose me and accompanied me there. She was 23. After the performance, we returned to our room. She was elated with my reception, and hugged me and told me how good I was. I felt so good being held by her, being so close to her; secure in the arms of a woman I had admired and loved for three years. Her eyes were so alive, so exciting; her smile so sensuous. When she said, ʺLet me help you take this off,ʺ I could only hope something might happen. I let my arms hang loose as she slipped the leotards over my shoulders, then I cooperated with her so my arms could be freed, leaving the costume hanging at my waist, with my breasts bare. ʺYou are so pretty,ʺ she said, placing her hands on my neck and then running them down my chest and then running them down my chest, over my breasts and then cupping them in her hands. I loved what she was doing, especially when she licked her index finger and began rubbing my left nipple, making it hard. She did the same with the right one, and I held her tightly around the waist. ʺDoes this feel good?ʺ she asked. ʺYes, donʹt stop.ʺ Then she took a nipple in each hand and rolled them between her fingers. At the same time she moved closer to me. From the waist down we were touching; from the waist up, separated enough for her to get her hands on my breasts. Somehow our lips met, tentative at first and then we kissed passionately with her tongue edging its way into my mouth. I began sucking her tongue, and for the first time I felt tingly all over. My next sensation was our deep breathing, then I felt her hands move from my front to my back, and she pressed tighter to me. Then she moved her hands down to my butt, massaging, and pushing my pelvis into hers. When I felt some thrusts of her pelvis against mine, my eyes opened wide. She responded by saying, ʺYou really turn me on...do you like this?ʺ ʺOh, yes.ʺ She said ʺLetʹs take this off,ʺ referring to the costume still covering my bottom. Down it came, and I stepped out of it. She held me at arms length, saying, ʺI want to look at you.ʺ Her hands moved from my neck, to my shoulders, down over my nipples to my waist; one hand on each side. Then she told me I was sexy and moved her right hand down my stomach and lower. I knew what she was going to do, hoping those sensations I had felt before would be even better. They were, as she concentrated on my clitoris with a circular motion, slipping her middle finger between my lips and occasionally into me. ʺI want to make love to you. Letʹs go to bed.ʺ We continued that night, all weekend and for almost three years until I had to move with my family. I became a lesbian and a woman that weekend!"		*:"I am a sixteen‑year‑old lesbian. I have been a lesbian since I was twelve. I had known my dance teacher for three years before she brought me out. I was very attracted to her when I first saw her, and from then on, I grew to be more and more in love with her. When I was ten, I had a crush on a friend of my older sister, and some time after that another crush on a cousin of mine. But these didnʹt last long. I always wanted to be near my teacher, dance well for her, and have her touch me! Often while falling asleep at night I would think about her holding me in her arms while Iʹd go to sleep or about her kissing me. I didnʹt know anything about lesbians then, so I didnʹt associate my feelings with anything but my love for her. We became lovers the weekend I was asked to give a special dance presentation in another city. My dance instructor chose me and accompanied me there. She was 23. After the performance, we returned to our room. She was elated with my reception, and hugged me and told me how good I was. I felt so good being held by her, being so close to her; secure in the arms of a woman I had admired and loved for three years. Her eyes were so alive, so exciting; her smile so sensuous. When she said, ʺLet me help you take this off,ʺ I could only hope something might happen. I let my arms hang loose as she slipped the leotards over my shoulders, then I cooperated with her so my arms could be freed, leaving the costume hanging at my waist, with my breasts bare. ʺYou are so pretty,ʺ she said, placing her hands on my neck and then running them down my chest and then running them down my chest, over my breasts and then cupping them in her hands. I loved what she was doing, especially when she licked her index finger and began rubbing my left nipple, making it hard. She did the same with the right one, and I held her tightly around the waist. ʺDoes this feel good?ʺ she asked. ʺYes, donʹt stop.ʺ Then she took a nipple in each hand and rolled them between her fingers. At the same time she moved closer to me. From the waist down we were touching; from the waist up, separated enough for her to get her hands on my breasts. Somehow our lips met, tentative at first and then we kissed passionately with her tongue edging its way into my mouth. I began sucking her tongue, and for the first time I felt tingly all over. My next sensation was our deep breathing, then I felt her hands move from my front to my back, and she pressed tighter to me. Then she moved her hands down to my butt, massaging, and pushing my pelvis into hers. When I felt some thrusts of her pelvis against mine, my eyes opened wide. She responded by saying, ʺYou really turn me on...do you like this?ʺ ʺOh, yes.ʺ She said ʺLetʹs take this off,ʺ referring to the costume still covering my bottom. Down it came, and I stepped out of it. She held me at arms length, saying, ʺI want to look at you.ʺ Her hands moved from my neck, to my shoulders, down over my nipples to my waist; one hand on each side. Then she told me I was sexy and moved her right hand down my stomach and lower. I knew what she was going to do, hoping those sensations I had felt before would be even better. They were, as she concentrated on my clitoris with a circular motion, slipping her middle finger between my lips and occasionally into me. ʺI want to make love to you. Letʹs go to bed.ʺ We continued that night, all weekend and for almost three years until I had to move with my family. I became a lesbian and a woman that weekend!"<ref>Note that this case has received commentary in academia by Lauren Jae Gutterman, in Gutterman, L.J. (2026). [https://dx.doi.org/10.1353/sex.00058 Intergenerational Sex in One Teenager in Ten]. ''Journal of the History of Sexuality'', 35(1), 144-151.</ref>

	*'''[http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/recycle-bin/is-not-okay/t.28768307_526/ Post by "Self-Rolled Poison"] in discussion of pedophilia is not okay in a forum on Gaia Online, June 30, 2007.'''		*'''[http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/recycle-bin/is-not-okay/t.28768307_526/ Post by "Self-Rolled Poison"] in discussion of pedophilia is not okay in a forum on Gaia Online, June 30, 2007.'''

GeoTerra: /* Older woman-younger male relationships */

2025-10-28T22:26:34Z

Older woman-younger male relationships

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:26, 28 October 2025
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	*'''"NotAMonster" on the IIDB forum'''		*'''"NotAMonster" on the IIDB forum'''
	*:A teenage pedophile has a good personal reason for not believing in the current dogma surrounding child sexuality. "When I was 10 I met a 21 year old girl who was a family friend of my cousins. Over a period of 2 months, we started to have a relationship. This went on until I was 13. She never forced me and I don't cry myself to sleep at night because of the memories that "monster" made me do. Never told my parents or anybody else about us because I knew she'd be arrested. Me being a girl lover may possibly be a result of being with her as a child, however it has not had a negative impact on my life. Not to mention we're still friends."<ref>Now defunct web forum used by a previous admin from Newgon.com: '''iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=4606675&postcount=176''' (dead, no archive available)</ref>		*:A teenage pedophile has a good personal reason for not believing in the current dogma surrounding child sexuality. "When I was 10 I met a 21 year old girl who was a family friend of my cousins. Over a period of 2 months, we started to have a relationship. This went on until I was 13. She never forced me and I don't cry myself to sleep at night because of the memories that "monster" made me do. Never told my parents or anybody else about us because I knew she'd be arrested. Me being a girl lover may possibly be a result of being with her as a child, however it has not had a negative impact on my life. Not to mention we're still friends."<ref>Now defunct web forum used by a previous admin from Newgon.com: '''iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=4606675&postcount=176''' (dead, no archive available)</ref>

			*'''[https://www.globalist.it/politics/2019/03/13/calenda-parla-del-figlio-piu-piccolo-gli-piace-il-comunismo-italiano-lo-faro-guarire/ Carlo Calenda, an Italian business executive and politician who previously served in the Italian senate - In an interview by weekly news magazine "Panorama" - 13 March 2019.]'''
			*:"Then Calenda talks about himself. He describes becoming a father at a young age as “the most formative event of my life: the birth of my daughter Tay. I was sixteen, I had no rules. She gave me a sense of difference and an idea of responsibility that I didn’t have before.” And he goes on: “I grew up with everyone telling me, ‘You’re more mature than your age.’ I thought I’d prove it,” adding, “I suggest that all parents try to prevent that.”"
			*:"It was a love story that began when he was just fourteen, with his mother’s husband’s secretary: “A beautiful girl, with red hair,” he recalls. “I used to visit producer Riccardo Tozzi, who was kind of a stepfather to me, and I flirted with her.” After a year-long relationship came an unexpected pregnancy: “I became a father and flunked school in the same year. But it was a turning point, and there wasn’t a single time I didn’t give her the bottle myself.”"
			*:"He was forced to leave home: “They changed the locks and made me face my responsibilities. I went to live with the girl’s parents.” His parents made a deal with him: “We’ll support your daughter, but you’ll have to support yourself.”"

	==References==		==References==

	[[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Testimony]][[Category:Testimony: Contact]]		[[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Testimony]][[Category:Testimony: Contact]]

The Admins at 09:51, 28 December 2024

2024-12-28T09:51:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:51, 28 December 2024
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	==Lesbian minor-adult experiences==		==Lesbian minor-adult experiences==

			*'''[https://fstube.net/w/qrhvdKZZdf8STHUnR9Da89 Video excerpts from the Canal F Channel article show] the story of a 13-year-old girl who had a consensual love relationship with her teacher.'''
			*:She initiated the relationship and did not see it as interfering with its pedagogical function. The relationship between the two, however, was forcibly interrupted by a complaint from the teenager's mother and the girlfriend was accused of rape of a vulnerable person, even under strong protests from the alleged victim.
	*'''Amy (16, [https://www.brongersma.info/images/Anthology_01.pdf commenting on a relationship with her teacher when aged 12]) in "One Teenager in Ten: Writings by Gay and Lesbian Youth"''':		*'''Amy (16, [https://www.brongersma.info/images/Anthology_01.pdf commenting on a relationship with her teacher when aged 12]) in "One Teenager in Ten: Writings by Gay and Lesbian Youth"''':
	*:"I am a sixteen‑year‑old lesbian. I have been a lesbian since I was twelve. I had known my dance teacher for three years before she brought me out. I was very attracted to her when I first saw her, and from then on, I grew to be more and more in love with her. When I was ten, I had a crush on a friend of my older sister, and some time after that another crush on a cousin of mine. But these didnʹt last long. I always wanted to be near my teacher, dance well for her, and have her touch me! Often while falling asleep at night I would think about her holding me in her arms while Iʹd go to sleep or about her kissing me. I didnʹt know anything about lesbians then, so I didnʹt associate my feelings with anything but my love for her. We became lovers the weekend I was asked to give a special dance presentation in another city. My dance instructor chose me and accompanied me there. She was 23. After the performance, we returned to our room. She was elated with my reception, and hugged me and told me how good I was. I felt so good being held by her, being so close to her; secure in the arms of a woman I had admired and loved for three years. Her eyes were so alive, so exciting; her smile so sensuous. When she said, ʺLet me help you take this off,ʺ I could only hope something might happen. I let my arms hang loose as she slipped the leotards over my shoulders, then I cooperated with her so my arms could be freed, leaving the costume hanging at my waist, with my breasts bare. ʺYou are so pretty,ʺ she said, placing her hands on my neck and then running them down my chest and then running them down my chest, over my breasts and then cupping them in her hands. I loved what she was doing, especially when she licked her index finger and began rubbing my left nipple, making it hard. She did the same with the right one, and I held her tightly around the waist. ʺDoes this feel good?ʺ she asked. ʺYes, donʹt stop.ʺ Then she took a nipple in each hand and rolled them between her fingers. At the same time she moved closer to me. From the waist down we were touching; from the waist up, separated enough for her to get her hands on my breasts. Somehow our lips met, tentative at first and then we kissed passionately with her tongue edging its way into my mouth. I began sucking her tongue, and for the first time I felt tingly all over. My next sensation was our deep breathing, then I felt her hands move from my front to my back, and she pressed tighter to me. Then she moved her hands down to my butt, massaging, and pushing my pelvis into hers. When I felt some thrusts of her pelvis against mine, my eyes opened wide. She responded by saying, ʺYou really turn me on...do you like this?ʺ ʺOh, yes.ʺ She said ʺLetʹs take this off,ʺ referring to the costume still covering my bottom. Down it came, and I stepped out of it. She held me at arms length, saying, ʺI want to look at you.ʺ Her hands moved from my neck, to my shoulders, down over my nipples to my waist; one hand on each side. Then she told me I was sexy and moved her right hand down my stomach and lower. I knew what she was going to do, hoping those sensations I had felt before would be even better. They were, as she concentrated on my clitoris with a circular motion, slipping her middle finger between my lips and occasionally into me. ʺI want to make love to you. Letʹs go to bed.ʺ We continued that night, all weekend and for almost three years until I had to move with my family. I became a lesbian and a woman that weekend!"		*:"I am a sixteen‑year‑old lesbian. I have been a lesbian since I was twelve. I had known my dance teacher for three years before she brought me out. I was very attracted to her when I first saw her, and from then on, I grew to be more and more in love with her. When I was ten, I had a crush on a friend of my older sister, and some time after that another crush on a cousin of mine. But these didnʹt last long. I always wanted to be near my teacher, dance well for her, and have her touch me! Often while falling asleep at night I would think about her holding me in her arms while Iʹd go to sleep or about her kissing me. I didnʹt know anything about lesbians then, so I didnʹt associate my feelings with anything but my love for her. We became lovers the weekend I was asked to give a special dance presentation in another city. My dance instructor chose me and accompanied me there. She was 23. After the performance, we returned to our room. She was elated with my reception, and hugged me and told me how good I was. I felt so good being held by her, being so close to her; secure in the arms of a woman I had admired and loved for three years. Her eyes were so alive, so exciting; her smile so sensuous. When she said, ʺLet me help you take this off,ʺ I could only hope something might happen. I let my arms hang loose as she slipped the leotards over my shoulders, then I cooperated with her so my arms could be freed, leaving the costume hanging at my waist, with my breasts bare. ʺYou are so pretty,ʺ she said, placing her hands on my neck and then running them down my chest and then running them down my chest, over my breasts and then cupping them in her hands. I loved what she was doing, especially when she licked her index finger and began rubbing my left nipple, making it hard. She did the same with the right one, and I held her tightly around the waist. ʺDoes this feel good?ʺ she asked. ʺYes, donʹt stop.ʺ Then she took a nipple in each hand and rolled them between her fingers. At the same time she moved closer to me. From the waist down we were touching; from the waist up, separated enough for her to get her hands on my breasts. Somehow our lips met, tentative at first and then we kissed passionately with her tongue edging its way into my mouth. I began sucking her tongue, and for the first time I felt tingly all over. My next sensation was our deep breathing, then I felt her hands move from my front to my back, and she pressed tighter to me. Then she moved her hands down to my butt, massaging, and pushing my pelvis into hers. When I felt some thrusts of her pelvis against mine, my eyes opened wide. She responded by saying, ʺYou really turn me on...do you like this?ʺ ʺOh, yes.ʺ She said ʺLetʹs take this off,ʺ referring to the costume still covering my bottom. Down it came, and I stepped out of it. She held me at arms length, saying, ʺI want to look at you.ʺ Her hands moved from my neck, to my shoulders, down over my nipples to my waist; one hand on each side. Then she told me I was sexy and moved her right hand down my stomach and lower. I knew what she was going to do, hoping those sensations I had felt before would be even better. They were, as she concentrated on my clitoris with a circular motion, slipping her middle finger between my lips and occasionally into me. ʺI want to make love to you. Letʹs go to bed.ʺ We continued that night, all weekend and for almost three years until I had to move with my family. I became a lesbian and a woman that weekend!"

Prue at 03:24, 8 December 2023

2023-12-08T03:24:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:24, 8 December 2023
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	*'''Lentz, Robert J. (2011). ''[https://library.lol/main/4685D58FE18EE0AEE4D0155F489DB838 Gloria Grahame, Bad Girl of Film Noir: The Complete Career]''. McFarland & Co.'''		*'''Lentz, Robert J. (2011). ''[https://library.lol/main/4685D58FE18EE0AEE4D0155F489DB838 Gloria Grahame, Bad Girl of Film Noir: The Complete Career]''. McFarland & Co.'''
	Newgon: Husband of oscar-winning actress '''Gloria Grahame''' caught her in bed with her 13 year old stepson '''Tony Ray'''. They later married and had 2 children in Grahame's happiest and longest lasting marriage. Grahame and her taboo husband suffered [[Secondary_Harm\|intense stigma and social punishment]] for their relationship. ~~Lent~~ wrote:		Newgon: Husband of oscar-winning actress '''Gloria Grahame''' caught her in bed with her 13 year old stepson '''Tony Ray'''. They later married and had 2 children in Grahame's happiest and longest lasting marriage. Grahame and her taboo husband suffered [[Secondary_Harm\|intense stigma and social punishment]] for their relationship. Lentz wrote:

	"[I]n 1958 she began seeing the man who would become her fourth husband. They had met in 1948, when Tony		"[I]n 1958 she began seeing the man who would become her fourth husband. They had met in 1948, when Tony

The Admins at 23:07, 5 July 2023

2023-07-05T23:07:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:07, 5 July 2023
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	*'''Catherine N.X.'''		*'''Catherine N.X.'''
	*:"Catherine N.X. is a 19 year old girl whose girllove relationship [with her mother] started at age 8 and continues happily to this day" [HFP main page]. She writes a column for the website, called [http://newgon.net/CPP/HFP-Cat.htm Ask Cat!]. For her view of her relationship, see her answers to the letter from [http://newgon.net/CPP/HFP-Cat-004.htm Rainer].		*:"Catherine N.X. is a 19 year old girl whose girllove relationship [with her mother] started at age 8 and continues happily to this day" [HFP main page]. She writes a column for the website, called [http://www.newgon.net/CPP/HFP-Cat.htm Ask Cat!]. For her view of her relationship, see her answers to the letter from [http://www.newgon.net/CPP/HFP-Cat-004.htm Rainer].

	*'''[http://www.ipce.info/host/radicase/chap04.htm Beth Kelly (feminist)], quoted in ''Paedophilia: The Radical Case''. Originally published as "On woman/girl love, or lesbians do "do it"", ''Gay Community News'', 3 March, 1979. '''		*'''[http://www.ipce.info/host/radicase/chap04.htm Beth Kelly (feminist)], quoted in ''Paedophilia: The Radical Case''. Originally published as "On woman/girl love, or lesbians do "do it"", ''Gay Community News'', 3 March, 1979. '''
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	"Their relationship gradually developed from reluctant friends to intimate lovers and they married on May 13, 1960, in Mexico. Knowing that news of their nuptials would cause an uproar, they managed to keep it quiet for nearly two years. Eventually people found out and Gloria's name was trashed in the tabloid press. Nicholas Ray was stunned and furious. But Tony loved Gloria and she loved him. [...] Tony Ray suffered from some of the same issues his father did, but not to the same extent. He never fell out of love with Gloria as his father had. But their union followed the same pattern that all of Gloria’s previous marriages had: cycles of separation and reunion. Some of their troubles were caused by the public reaction to their marriage; some of them were monetary" (pp. 215-216).		"Their relationship gradually developed from reluctant friends to intimate lovers and they married on May 13, 1960, in Mexico. Knowing that news of their nuptials would cause an uproar, they managed to keep it quiet for nearly two years. Eventually people found out and Gloria's name was trashed in the tabloid press. Nicholas Ray was stunned and furious. But Tony loved Gloria and she loved him. [...] Tony Ray suffered from some of the same issues his father did, but not to the same extent. He never fell out of love with Gloria as his father had. But their union followed the same pattern that all of Gloria’s previous marriages had: cycles of separation and reunion. Some of their troubles were caused by the public reaction to their marriage; some of them were monetary" (pp. 215-216).

	*''' [http://newgon.net/CPP/RevisedThinking.htm Revised Thinking About Former Sexual Experience] by Porn-Dog in All About Sex, 1998.'''		*''' [http://www.newgon.net/CPP/RevisedThinking.htm Revised Thinking About Former Sexual Experience] by Porn-Dog in All About Sex, 1998.'''
	*:A 17-year-old writes about an incident in which his 16- or 17-year-old babysitter engaged him in sex games when he was seven or eight, including fellating him. He was punished for it and grew up sexually repressed. He later came to the conclusion that the sex games were okay and his problem had been the way his parents reacted to it. He wrote, "I laugh at myself for calling someone doing me a favor like that 'abuse.'"		*:A 17-year-old writes about an incident in which his 16- or 17-year-old babysitter engaged him in sex games when he was seven or eight, including fellating him. He was punished for it and grew up sexually repressed. He later came to the conclusion that the sex games were okay and his problem had been the way his parents reacted to it. He wrote, "I laugh at myself for calling someone doing me a favor like that 'abuse.'"

	*'''The Confessions of Victor X, circa 1910, Chapter 2: [http://newgon.net/CPP/VictorX.htm Enlightenment]. See also [http://web.archive.org/web/20090422050236/http://www.calibanbooks.co.uk/htmlpages/victorx.html publisher's ad] for history of the book.'''		*'''The Confessions of Victor X, circa 1910, Chapter 2: [http://www.newgon.net/CPP/VictorX.htm Enlightenment]. See also [http://web.archive.org/web/20090422050236/http://www.calibanbooks.co.uk/htmlpages/victorx.html publisher's ad] for history of the book.'''
	*:A man in pre-revolution Russia looks back on his aristocratic and prudish upbringing and the twists and gambols he went through to learn about human sexuality. This had been left by his parents entirely up to him to research in the musty family library and with whatever friends, servants, or servant's children knew enough and were willing to show him. At ten years old, Victor was molested by a young woman servant almost twice his age. The woman grabbed his hand and thrust it under her skirt while grabbing his penis with her other hand. The boy chastized her and thereafter avoided being alone with her. Far from being traumatized by the event, it played an important part in his budding awareness of sexuality. I believe this case shows, not only that a prepubescent boy of ten can be capable of resisting what he does not want, but also that when it is gently forced on him, he can be capable of processing the experience in his young mind and turning it to positive effect in his life.		*:A man in pre-revolution Russia looks back on his aristocratic and prudish upbringing and the twists and gambols he went through to learn about human sexuality. This had been left by his parents entirely up to him to research in the musty family library and with whatever friends, servants, or servant's children knew enough and were willing to show him. At ten years old, Victor was molested by a young woman servant almost twice his age. The woman grabbed his hand and thrust it under her skirt while grabbing his penis with her other hand. The boy chastized her and thereafter avoided being alone with her. Far from being traumatized by the event, it played an important part in his budding awareness of sexuality. I believe this case shows, not only that a prepubescent boy of ten can be capable of resisting what he does not want, but also that when it is gently forced on him, he can be capable of processing the experience in his young mind and turning it to positive effect in his life.

	*'''[http://newgon.net/CPP/awakening.htm Part 6] of A Young Boy's Awakening by "Girl Luvr" on alt.support.girl-lovers, February to March 2001.'''		*'''[http://www.newgon.net/CPP/awakening.htm Part 6] of A Young Boy's Awakening by "Girl Luvr" on alt.support.girl-lovers, February to March 2001.'''
	*:A man in his sixties, looking back on his sexual adventures from age five to 19, recalls the time that two older girls held him down and fondled him. His initial reaction was to struggle, until he realized that it felt good and he then turned to convincing them to let him return the favor.		*:A man in his sixties, looking back on his sexual adventures from age five to 19, recalls the time that two older girls held him down and fondled him. His initial reaction was to struggle, until he realized that it felt good and he then turned to convincing them to let him return the favor.

Line 93:		Line 93:
	*:At the age of 22, Vili Fualaau tells his story of love for his once sixth-grade school teacher and now mother of his two children, Mary Kay LeTourneau, six weeks after she finished serving seven years in prison for statutory rape: "Mary's out now and we're finally together. And we still have the same feelings for each other, times forever." [1] At the age of 14, after she had given birth to their first baby, he said, "I want people to stop seeing me as a victim. My life is going to be fine. Mary didn't harm me in any way." [2]		*:At the age of 22, Vili Fualaau tells his story of love for his once sixth-grade school teacher and now mother of his two children, Mary Kay LeTourneau, six weeks after she finished serving seven years in prison for statutory rape: "Mary's out now and we're finally together. And we still have the same feelings for each other, times forever." [1] At the age of 14, after she had given birth to their first baby, he said, "I want people to stop seeing me as a victim. My life is going to be fine. Mary didn't harm me in any way." [2]

	*'''[http://newgon.net/CPP/HFP-089.htm Letter from Bayardo] in HFP Mailbag.'''		*'''[http://www.newgon.net/CPP/HFP-089.htm Letter from Bayardo] in HFP Mailbag.'''
	*: A 14-year-old boy writes about his desire for women aged 35 and older.		*: A 14-year-old boy writes about his desire for women aged 35 and older.