Talk:Memes and Graphics

<mediawiki xmlns="http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.11/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.11/ http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.11.xsd" version="0.11" xml:lang="en">
  <siteinfo>
    <sitename>NewgonWiki</sitename>
    <dbname>newgon_wiki</dbname>
    <base>https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Main_Page</base>
    <generator>MediaWiki 1.45.3</generator>
    <case>first-letter</case>
    <namespaces>
      <namespace key="-2" case="first-letter">Media</namespace>
      <namespace key="-1" case="first-letter">Special</namespace>
      <namespace key="0" case="first-letter" />
      <namespace key="1" case="first-letter">Talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="2" case="first-letter">User</namespace>
      <namespace key="3" case="first-letter">User talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="4" case="first-letter">NewgonWiki</namespace>
      <namespace key="5" case="first-letter">NewgonWiki talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="6" case="first-letter">File</namespace>
      <namespace key="7" case="first-letter">File talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="8" case="first-letter">MediaWiki</namespace>
      <namespace key="9" case="first-letter">MediaWiki talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="10" case="first-letter">Template</namespace>
      <namespace key="11" case="first-letter">Template talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="12" case="first-letter">Help</namespace>
      <namespace key="13" case="first-letter">Help talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="14" case="first-letter">Category</namespace>
      <namespace key="15" case="first-letter">Category talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="3200" case="first-letter">Mu</namespace>
      <namespace key="3201" case="first-letter">Mu talk</namespace>
    </namespaces>
  </siteinfo>
  <page>
    <title>Talk:Memes and Graphics</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>1850</id>
    <revision>
      <id>8776</id>
      <timestamp>2021-11-05T19:05:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JohnHolt</username>
        <id>39</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Created page with "==Stonetoss==  Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --~~~~"</comment>
      <origin>8776</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="224" sha1="ms33nye4mybjwse8j4qjducb746xs56" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ms33nye4mybjwse8j4qjducb746xs56</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9112</id>
      <parentid>8776</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-08T23:38:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JohnHolt</username>
        <id>39</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9112</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1271" sha1="d4935heg0yk78mnvs0blno5d140vg7q" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze youk knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>d4935heg0yk78mnvs0blno5d140vg7q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9113</id>
      <parentid>9112</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-08T23:39:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JohnHolt</username>
        <id>39</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sketch */</comment>
      <origin>9113</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1271" sha1="io42i2r3yp3gr9i8md13veuqa6xh8k9" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>io42i2r3yp3gr9i8md13veuqa6xh8k9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9193</id>
      <parentid>9113</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-09T21:31:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JohnHolt</username>
        <id>39</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sketch */</comment>
      <origin>9193</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2351" sha1="msholh5g83yv6giier9hu2ccq37rcdg" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top]

--[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 21:31, 9 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>msholh5g83yv6giier9hu2ccq37rcdg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9200</id>
      <parentid>9193</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-09T23:45:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JohnHolt</username>
        <id>39</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sketch 2 */</comment>
      <origin>9200</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2414" sha1="3ysfphmc3idqybkssjuieggy0ry47dm" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

--[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 21:31, 9 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3ysfphmc3idqybkssjuieggy0ry47dm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9244</id>
      <parentid>9200</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-10T23:24:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JohnHolt</username>
        <id>39</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9244</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2683" sha1="cdbl1s3bs2slctkvn5hx4hqdk14vltc" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==Lol==

Surely it should be "this is not her/his" property as opposed to "your". It reads like it's sddressing adults who think they own kids bodies and could be misinterpreted. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:24, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

--[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 21:31, 9 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cdbl1s3bs2slctkvn5hx4hqdk14vltc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9346</id>
      <parentid>9244</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-14T20:15:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JohnHolt</username>
        <id>39</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9346</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2666" sha1="kz8va0ir8ryh97ya8dt5ltvmbrtombt" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==Sketch 3==

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kz8va0ir8ryh97ya8dt5ltvmbrtombt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9347</id>
      <parentid>9346</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-14T21:13:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>JohnHolt</username>
        <id>39</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9347</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2668" sha1="geju2koe25dse3wu68n2nt0az29iv52" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>geju2koe25dse3wu68n2nt0az29iv52</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9565</id>
      <parentid>9347</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T10:31:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9565</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3330" sha1="4kp3hm7kl2c2fsu2sr4pcxk75x1mg9j" xml:space="preserve">==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4kp3hm7kl2c2fsu2sr4pcxk75x1mg9j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9566</id>
      <parentid>9565</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T10:32:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9566</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3339" sha1="oxa3d8vsb95wu4itoqp5t0jsb34ljfc" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oxa3d8vsb95wu4itoqp5t0jsb34ljfc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9571</id>
      <parentid>9566</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:12:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9571</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3684" sha1="mr152xu75yoe1e6mx976krkxnhe9evq" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child"
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mr152xu75yoe1e6mx976krkxnhe9evq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9572</id>
      <parentid>9571</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:14:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9572</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3916" sha1="lwa82bmksf30j5u500fqkne5emin1fr" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lwa82bmksf30j5u500fqkne5emin1fr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9574</id>
      <parentid>9572</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:16:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9574</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3967" sha1="tt0dsosorhnrnfkzcahkyclu3e6cg9b" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>tt0dsosorhnrnfkzcahkyclu3e6cg9b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9575</id>
      <parentid>9574</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:22:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9575</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4097" sha1="nn1fytwbgz90syy0hc451jliepsmvtb" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>nn1fytwbgz90syy0hc451jliepsmvtb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9576</id>
      <parentid>9575</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:25:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9576</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4276" sha1="do7lhetcai0bsftje7mo0z4gs0hlhwn" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>do7lhetcai0bsftje7mo0z4gs0hlhwn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9577</id>
      <parentid>9576</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:26:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9577</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4318" sha1="4uy7okqp7kzhxvyfsvgkhg411xrl89v" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4uy7okqp7kzhxvyfsvgkhg411xrl89v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9578</id>
      <parentid>9577</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:31:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9578</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4412" sha1="bertj5z21xb82cl2lp03w2qsrv1sw7z" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bertj5z21xb82cl2lp03w2qsrv1sw7z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9579</id>
      <parentid>9578</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:34:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9579</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4566" sha1="pbko3a2ocrd5dbi678wx4mafpqxjokv" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pbko3a2ocrd5dbi678wx4mafpqxjokv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9580</id>
      <parentid>9579</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:37:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9580</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4641" sha1="amxh8v7670nzx8h8ozy4d9dwubb17t8" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>amxh8v7670nzx8h8ozy4d9dwubb17t8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9582</id>
      <parentid>9580</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:44:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9582</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4818" sha1="ekgfl6jhg0tulccr7mhptw40341hik9" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood.

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ekgfl6jhg0tulccr7mhptw40341hik9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9585</id>
      <parentid>9582</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T11:49:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9585</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5163" sha1="4jqbl6fbyxmxftj8cermaxptp22sdp8" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4jqbl6fbyxmxftj8cermaxptp22sdp8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9586</id>
      <parentid>9585</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T12:17:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9586</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5610" sha1="kbjxunaemd90mhbmlbxd82qcd0t6hpj" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

==Trad memes==

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? Have a picture of a teenager protesting, and then say "can easily be groomed into sex against her own will". "Grooming" is posited as the way "pedophiles" overcome this resistance of very small children (manipulation), so shouldn't really be used in this context.
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kbjxunaemd90mhbmlbxd82qcd0t6hpj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9588</id>
      <parentid>9586</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T12:28:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>9588</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5667" sha1="35c1h54ihlz0rbrw11x7485imvmk9dd" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

==Trad memes==

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? Have a picture of a teenager protesting, and then say "CSA Industry: this is a "helpless child", 10 minutes away from being "groomed" into sex against her own will". "Grooming" is posited as the way "pedophiles" overcome this resistance of very small children (manipulation), so shouldn't really be used in this context.
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>35c1h54ihlz0rbrw11x7485imvmk9dd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9589</id>
      <parentid>9588</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T14:32:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9589</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5690" sha1="nt87452zrzto8pmzdtgfk7hi6ozgaha" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".</text>
      <sha1>nt87452zrzto8pmzdtgfk7hi6ozgaha</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9590</id>
      <parentid>9589</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T14:40:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>9590</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5881" sha1="cwaucrqnzzs6109iq46quyfn6ku54zl" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".</text>
      <sha1>cwaucrqnzzs6109iq46quyfn6ku54zl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9592</id>
      <parentid>9590</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T14:55:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Discussion */</comment>
      <origin>9592</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6179" sha1="4q7xfa84ssd6vebe8p5pn31zzb8atii" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his teacher, causing the following symptoms: (scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>4q7xfa84ssd6vebe8p5pn31zzb8atii</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9593</id>
      <parentid>9592</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T14:57:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Discussion */</comment>
      <origin>9593</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6210" sha1="e2pymj3fab7c4bh0gnu8ez04c9ieqbq" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>e2pymj3fab7c4bh0gnu8ez04c9ieqbq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9595</id>
      <parentid>9593</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T17:14:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9595</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6472" sha1="sex78nbw1eifs9y92vqhsdao4xzve7w" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>sex78nbw1eifs9y92vqhsdao4xzve7w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9596</id>
      <parentid>9595</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T17:23:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Discussion */</comment>
      <origin>9596</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7490" sha1="qexgrpfjstzbtrfe7wdexodf9e7knq3" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we still have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bullettin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>qexgrpfjstzbtrfe7wdexodf9e7knq3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9600</id>
      <parentid>9596</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T18:12:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ok */</comment>
      <origin>9600</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7633" sha1="nuui4rjhxv5mfpgk32ioy2h8hzjoh7x" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:suicide.png|Again, focus too much on small children
File:Society.png|Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless?
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we still have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bullettin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>nuui4rjhxv5mfpgk32ioy2h8hzjoh7x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9602</id>
      <parentid>9600</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T18:15:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9602</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7746" sha1="9h26mr5sw6yzuicdgbki7kpg01fdmzx" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:suicide.png|Again, focus too much on small children
File:LandMine.png|Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we still have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bullettin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>9h26mr5sw6yzuicdgbki7kpg01fdmzx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9603</id>
      <parentid>9602</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T18:17:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Discussion */</comment>
      <origin>9603</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7745" sha1="plxz53h7fo5w6ic5hdivk0lnqv8uh00" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==Ok==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group. Most Americans think of small children when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section. "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. See [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]].

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:suicide.png|Again, focus too much on small children
File:LandMine.png|Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we still have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>plxz53h7fo5w6ic5hdivk0lnqv8uh00</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9605</id>
      <parentid>9603</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-22T18:26:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9605</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8051" sha1="73yyv97bpjtirtyldlp0d0dw2rnakzu" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:suicide.png|Again, focus too much on small children
File:LandMine.png|Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>73yyv97bpjtirtyldlp0d0dw2rnakzu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9611</id>
      <parentid>9605</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-23T09:02:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>9611</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8205" sha1="9g4nlcr4skv57er30dxa7ddzoabd9nv" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:suicide.png|Again, focus too much on small children
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>9g4nlcr4skv57er30dxa7ddzoabd9nv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9638</id>
      <parentid>9611</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-11-25T10:54:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>9638</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8148" sha1="5oiw4310w1rp4yab40iz3goqd192518" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>5oiw4310w1rp4yab40iz3goqd192518</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10007</id>
      <parentid>9638</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-10T17:49:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10007</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8389" sha1="t8yyg6iwtdmok5b7bmwhrtmj7vxadg8" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>t8yyg6iwtdmok5b7bmwhrtmj7vxadg8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10159</id>
      <parentid>10007</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-14T09:01:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* OK */</comment>
      <origin>10159</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8487" sha1="llq8s59trpjifrpfc69oqgg6sqzlkz8" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:belikedog.png|Puppies and Adult Dog having sex|"Small dog", please find one with a juvenile.
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>llq8s59trpjifrpfc69oqgg6sqzlkz8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10163</id>
      <parentid>10159</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-14T09:48:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10163</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9359" sha1="1p37hecyo4r2bworuh6voxitoyxpyl1" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:belikedog.png|Puppies and Adult Dog having sex|"Small dog", please find one with a juvenile.
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>1p37hecyo4r2bworuh6voxitoyxpyl1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10165</id>
      <parentid>10163</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-14T09:59:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* OK */</comment>
      <origin>10165</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9605" sha1="j4cz9evqp391w0h082u5w6rm5m8jc9n" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Secondcoming.png|Is there any point being this provocative and getting banned? It would be easy to knock one of these up yourself either way, but if any journalist wanted to misrepresent this site, this is the first thing they would go for.
File:belikedog.png|Puppies and Adult Dog having sex|"Small dog", please find one with a juvenile.
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).</text>
      <sha1>j4cz9evqp391w0h082u5w6rm5m8jc9n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10166</id>
      <parentid>10165</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-14T10:33:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* OK */</comment>
      <origin>10166</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="10095" sha1="079qe0pp01r3dmcg36kq75bbz4l5cfy" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Secondcoming.png|Is there any point being this provocative and getting banned? It would be easy to knock one of these up yourself either way, but if any journalist wanted to misrepresent this site, this is the first thing they would go for.
File:belikedog.png|Puppies and Adult Dog having sex|"Small dog", please find one with a juvenile. Bonobo films are an obvious example.
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>079qe0pp01r3dmcg36kq75bbz4l5cfy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10183</id>
      <parentid>10166</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-15T03:23:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <origin>10183</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="10118" sha1="9d5s9p8e9sgkcpsctsx6qo7hdhxvu3f" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (51 present!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files (19)

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Secondcoming.png|Is there any point being this provocative and getting banned? It would be easy to knock one of these up yourself either way, but if any journalist wanted to misrepresent this site, this is the first thing they would go for.
File:belikedog.png|Puppies and Adult Dog having sex|"Small dog", please find one with a juvenile. Bonobo films are an obvious example.
File:Inter-abled.png|This is problematic due to statements it makes about most disabled people feeling desperation, etc. Also contains multiple unnecessary uses of "child" - could just be "youth" or "minor" to make the same point.
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
Summary.png|This needs to be developed graphically
File:Effects1.png|There is a simpler way of putting this. Happy to discuss it.
File:Curious.png|This goes deep into making claims without sourcing it. There are better ways to phrase and we have citations from our research sections. Again, happy to discuss.
File:SocietyEx.png|No need to use "child"
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Gonz.png|We don't need alter versions, the first one is fine. Delete?
File:PenguinNew.png|Again, these are adult-juvenile. "Child" means "prepubescent" to Americans.
File:PenguinCatchy.png|We don't need multi versions - suggest deleting this one.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:groomingsheep.jpg|Why introduce the idea of tiny children? See below.
File:Consent33.png|A developmental argument is also made at this point (by Americans). So I don't see what this achieves.
File:grooming4.png|This seems more like just an unsourced twitter opinion being stated thru the conduit of a sketch (again "Children" etc).
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>9d5s9p8e9sgkcpsctsx6qo7hdhxvu3f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10227</id>
      <parentid>10183</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-15T23:30:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* OK */</comment>
      <origin>10227</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8566" sha1="ccvybr0nbs6aew0be4cxdcx0icecft8" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (51 present!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files (19)

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>ccvybr0nbs6aew0be4cxdcx0icecft8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10253</id>
      <parentid>10227</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T15:58:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10253</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8767" sha1="qvmltvab6dyr4116dl9mjm2xi693tn6" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (51 present!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files (19)

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:LandMine.png|Right... my PS skills are crap, but you see what I mean now? Include teens with actual physical development and you *win the argument*. Original comment: Why focus on really small children when the point is won regardless? Also type of photography is semi-posed and questionable in some jurisdictions we serve, so would need changing.
File:Sor4.png|Teen. It's also far more impactful to say "teen" or "teenage boy".
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>qvmltvab6dyr4116dl9mjm2xi693tn6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10254</id>
      <parentid>10253</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T16:00:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>10254</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8333" sha1="6disqf6q4qk1tic682crgddwd8rcmyv" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (51 present!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files (19)

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>6disqf6q4qk1tic682crgddwd8rcmyv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10265</id>
      <parentid>10254</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T19:11:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>10265</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8372" sha1="8z12vcud00mq5d5wghsd4uuc17ngxsd" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (51 present!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files (19)

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>8z12vcud00mq5d5wghsd4uuc17ngxsd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10266</id>
      <parentid>10265</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T19:12:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>10266</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8402" sha1="c88mesg5u7dljvcf5dvmklwn1emaoov" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (51 present!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files (19)

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile".
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary.
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>c88mesg5u7dljvcf5dvmklwn1emaoov</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10267</id>
      <parentid>10266</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T19:13:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* OK */</comment>
      <origin>10267</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8448" sha1="ay37lswklevwf84luq3zb5mkap9moj0" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (51 present!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 files (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files (19)

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

More simple, a gay pridegoblin with his dog/boy on a leash/or pair of furries. The dominant partner says "we oppose sexual relations between youth and adults, because the inherent power differential means they will always lead to harm!" --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 20:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

===Purposeful Pedophiles vs Degen Pedo Hunters===

There are plenty of photos of ugly/degenerate pedo hunters and well dressed/smart pedophiles. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 17:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

===Content===

So for the grooming vs reality meme, we could go with: (pic of an angry teenage boy + famous pic of Greta Thunberg at the UN) Top overlay: CSA Industry: These are both helpless little children who can be groomed into unwanted sex. Bottom overlay: Reality: Even a toddler or Greta Thunberg knows how to say "no".

Another helpful use of small children: CSA Shrinks: This 2 year old boy was left completely unharmed by repeated nonconsensual genital/anal fondling by his parents in the bathtub. His 15 year old brother got a blowjob once from his hot teacher, leaving him "scarred for life": (symptom list scrolls off the edge of the screen).

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>ay37lswklevwf84luq3zb5mkap9moj0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10268</id>
      <parentid>10267</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T22:44:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10268</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7240" sha1="eco6zh7fqa3p20czlmkxjmgt8lod7af" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>eco6zh7fqa3p20czlmkxjmgt8lod7af</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10272</id>
      <parentid>10268</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T23:35:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>10272</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7511" sha1="p86cmrw2x37ay5a1590l4bxpcib5j93" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>p86cmrw2x37ay5a1590l4bxpcib5j93</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10274</id>
      <parentid>10272</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T23:50:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10274</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7773" sha1="o5p6lx1i393uy7gf58qqci5ibdgdjja" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>o5p6lx1i393uy7gf58qqci5ibdgdjja</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10275</id>
      <parentid>10274</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-16T23:52:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>10275</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7788" sha1="tfijpavxqrckg0uztvffqgyqbnw4u1n" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>tfijpavxqrckg0uztvffqgyqbnw4u1n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10277</id>
      <parentid>10275</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T00:30:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10277</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7884" sha1="7tzo5h4qef74x2bphdp0yieu7e20bzl" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>7tzo5h4qef74x2bphdp0yieu7e20bzl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10278</id>
      <parentid>10277</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T02:56:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sketch */</comment>
      <origin>10278</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8279" sha1="k0cckvtcewtjkiv6owowov9rlol2o70" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==Sketch 3==

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our gistory; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>k0cckvtcewtjkiv6owowov9rlol2o70</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10279</id>
      <parentid>10278</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T02:57:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sketch 3 */</comment>
      <origin>10279</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8279" sha1="ki3vmpzmh7u0rktb8x4ksr8xggycrlo" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

==Sketch 3==

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>ki3vmpzmh7u0rktb8x4ksr8xggycrlo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10280</id>
      <parentid>10279</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T02:58:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sketch 3 */</comment>
      <origin>10280</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8281" sha1="tqxle6lxxm8fqn90tzq7nwg6i5bjr97" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Should I just delete the last one ??)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>tqxle6lxxm8fqn90tzq7nwg6i5bjr97</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10283</id>
      <parentid>10280</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T08:10:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>10283</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8269" sha1="b1zvun3s6hry7wgkxt8m9d9rqrxkjhc" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Updated to a new version)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>b1zvun3s6hry7wgkxt8m9d9rqrxkjhc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10284</id>
      <parentid>10283</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T08:21:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Trad memes */</comment>
      <origin>10284</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8339" sha1="66bwtj6tjqtpbkf0on7j01pck6sdeb4" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Updated to a new version)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Iwas8.jpg|We seem to have much on the same topic. Feel free to rotate/modify. Removed to keep in limits. (Ok, we can delete this, it didn't appeal to me also)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>66bwtj6tjqtpbkf0on7j01pck6sdeb4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10285</id>
      <parentid>10284</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T08:29:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10285</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8175" sha1="qaw5z2pabzrns3x08zjr1tep6sjj9y8" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Updated to a new version)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>qaw5z2pabzrns3x08zjr1tep6sjj9y8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10288</id>
      <parentid>10285</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T08:31:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* OK */</comment>
      <origin>10288</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8198" sha1="6klcdl3fpgont95xzehdf29mhz2br86" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:MaritalRape.png|Just replace child with minor (updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:randomphoto2.png|Seems to be two memes mixed together, not working (Updated to a new version)
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>6klcdl3fpgont95xzehdf29mhz2br86</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10289</id>
      <parentid>10288</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T10:37:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10289</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8025" sha1="4iazvsvbg8q25hynejg7b0foqbq9rgl" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>4iazvsvbg8q25hynejg7b0foqbq9rgl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10290</id>
      <parentid>10289</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T10:55:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10290</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8262" sha1="hubtzzvjr0y1heeqa7tgx4cusmba702" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;

&lt;/gallery&gt;


===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>hubtzzvjr0y1heeqa7tgx4cusmba702</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10291</id>
      <parentid>10290</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T10:56:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10291</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8263" sha1="b39nyutxzkktva1hpw1t7gofnb7usjg" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;

&lt;/gallery&gt;


===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>b39nyutxzkktva1hpw1t7gofnb7usjg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10293</id>
      <parentid>10291</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T10:58:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10293</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8305" sha1="5t9287cq5mqplgoa9w647ijtzfdbsny" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:at85scarred.png|Scarred for life at 85
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>5t9287cq5mqplgoa9w647ijtzfdbsny</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10296</id>
      <parentid>10293</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-17T13:10:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10296</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8349" sha1="mqtsu4mu5tsiwepxv5x068uxtmn5rma" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:at85scarred.png|Scarred for life at 85
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>mqtsu4mu5tsiwepxv5x068uxtmn5rma</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10302</id>
      <parentid>10296</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-18T09:02:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10302</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8394" sha1="7g7uvg3qxb6uoaq0xiu6yvmyul4zy39" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>7g7uvg3qxb6uoaq0xiu6yvmyul4zy39</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10305</id>
      <parentid>10302</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-18T11:44:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10305</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8441" sha1="tqdr9e7gefm8z6fwfgj7qjoiqxcwatu" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Bullying and Divorce survivor
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>tqdr9e7gefm8z6fwfgj7qjoiqxcwatu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10307</id>
      <parentid>10305</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-18T11:55:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10307</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8479" sha1="ntq6fxhpcuxbn8heyo8ttk0lxjfyaad" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Bullying and Divorce survivor
File:shotdead.png|Boyfriend shot dead
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>ntq6fxhpcuxbn8heyo8ttk0lxjfyaad</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10310</id>
      <parentid>10307</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-18T18:32:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10310</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8493" sha1="17ojykuo3m34vf9bh9bwnwf8h3gl4x7" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example??
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>17ojykuo3m34vf9bh9bwnwf8h3gl4x7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10315</id>
      <parentid>10310</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-19T03:44:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10315</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8571" sha1="54ouq19oww6wjpp2lu7eoeib5vhk9au" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>54ouq19oww6wjpp2lu7eoeib5vhk9au</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10329</id>
      <parentid>10315</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-19T16:45:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10329</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8630" sha1="qlzqtv97i4dmt038uotks6ljugzyorz" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_Horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>qlzqtv97i4dmt038uotks6ljugzyorz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10330</id>
      <parentid>10329</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-19T16:47:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10330</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8629" sha1="hdijyua72icgro9fv7vi7xy35phz7pg" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:TrojanHorse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>hdijyua72icgro9fv7vi7xy35phz7pg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10331</id>
      <parentid>10330</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-19T16:48:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10331</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8630" sha1="8kdugtalpqq6fxkqkbqxw94ddbfr2fs" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>8kdugtalpqq6fxkqkbqxw94ddbfr2fs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10339</id>
      <parentid>10331</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-20T06:02:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10339</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8683" sha1="qn2gnngooqd2phr6m888l5cl52mmt3c" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>qn2gnngooqd2phr6m888l5cl52mmt3c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10341</id>
      <parentid>10339</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-20T06:04:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10341</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8732" sha1="qkoxhg1tkbgqy1c9mdz6r0yq150yn2i" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>qkoxhg1tkbgqy1c9mdz6r0yq150yn2i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10343</id>
      <parentid>10341</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-20T06:48:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10343</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8799" sha1="o5px49m0vedxjiy2j0miqn2czqe9jzj" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>o5px49m0vedxjiy2j0miqn2czqe9jzj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10345</id>
      <parentid>10343</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-20T07:54:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10345</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8851" sha1="n5wi65euo8y5totzde0ok62ihdnlkyw" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:dogchasing.png|Doesn't seem coherent - have to think to make sense of it - similar memes making clearer sense of same topic (Ok, will think of something)
File:Psychs.png|This might be a better concept, but again, I can't help with my graphic skills.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:Teembrain.png|Half horse painting - Teen brain
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>n5wi65euo8y5totzde0ok62ihdnlkyw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10373</id>
      <parentid>10345</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-21T09:08:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10373</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8544" sha1="g2e6hatpqt53k73o3rm1w8yw1m4qbr8" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>g2e6hatpqt53k73o3rm1w8yw1m4qbr8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10375</id>
      <parentid>10373</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-21T13:36:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10375</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8590" sha1="edm4jf2f31mczrhi7xyqbzwf8wnwn9k" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>edm4jf2f31mczrhi7xyqbzwf8wnwn9k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10380</id>
      <parentid>10375</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-22T08:20:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10380</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8817" sha1="mjrdwq9r5d2fh9xlkylspm2i82fr5g5" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>mjrdwq9r5d2fh9xlkylspm2i82fr5g5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10466</id>
      <parentid>10380</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-30T08:11:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10466</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8867" sha1="2kh349dplagxcw9t2lbwzacllgsnsbz" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRCombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>2kh349dplagxcw9t2lbwzacllgsnsbz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10467</id>
      <parentid>10466</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-30T08:11:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10467</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8867" sha1="tjho2jx6gjyqqt6g6ygvgv79qzadbwh" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>tjho2jx6gjyqqt6g6ygvgv79qzadbwh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10471</id>
      <parentid>10467</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-30T12:30:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10471</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8919" sha1="euow2mb8cdgk824uczwv69vw4wvs78d" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>euow2mb8cdgk824uczwv69vw4wvs78d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10472</id>
      <parentid>10471</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-30T15:02:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* OK */</comment>
      <origin>10472</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9312" sha1="kew9k8q1n4y92ox27z48un52oho6vlh" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:MomSonRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>kew9k8q1n4y92ox27z48un52oho6vlh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10473</id>
      <parentid>10472</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-30T15:04:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10473</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9311" sha1="14v5oicqqx3u5ddsueg353zq6kmbd6x" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>14v5oicqqx3u5ddsueg353zq6kmbd6x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10496</id>
      <parentid>10473</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-30T18:51:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10496</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9363" sha1="ng3ys6tf63rs75a0nmwy0weeinmkp9x" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
File:matthew.png|Priest with Kids and Matthew 19:14
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>ng3ys6tf63rs75a0nmwy0weeinmkp9x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10534</id>
      <parentid>10496</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-31T08:44:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10534</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9411" sha1="9tp0m5gka458x8ahe3bxc4dckgo6rza" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
File:matthew.png|Priest with Kids and Matthew 19:14
File:whataboutism.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>9tp0m5gka458x8ahe3bxc4dckgo6rza</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10535</id>
      <parentid>10534</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-31T08:45:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10535</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9411" sha1="2sbhd5gb8kl3ogb9clye02oo65xgn0l" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
File:matthew.png|Priest with Kids and Matthew 19:14
File:whataboutery.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>2sbhd5gb8kl3ogb9clye02oo65xgn0l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10537</id>
      <parentid>10535</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-31T08:46:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10537</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9479" sha1="p9nxvbqty0hdlj7d6qnh406ni7nbyw5" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
File:matthew.png|Priest with Kids and Matthew 19:14
File:whataboutery.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>p9nxvbqty0hdlj7d6qnh406ni7nbyw5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10539</id>
      <parentid>10537</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-31T08:50:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10539</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9480" sha1="1lhcam7dsqkp20jcgxgqp1f5sos97m1" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
File:matthew.png|Priest with Kids and Matthew 19:14
File:whataboutism2.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>1lhcam7dsqkp20jcgxgqp1f5sos97m1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10541</id>
      <parentid>10539</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-31T16:24:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10541</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9428" sha1="qs22xq6i48hx9hqa5vualy3ocunw7qq" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:SRcombined.png|Statutory rape with 3 reasons
File:Time2bomb.png|Bomb on the crotch - new version
File:whataboutism2.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>qs22xq6i48hx9hqa5vualy3ocunw7qq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10542</id>
      <parentid>10541</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-12-31T16:26:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10542</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9326" sha1="5yacnnt14fszlfk7ec2xsv1ylpfzusg" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>5yacnnt14fszlfk7ec2xsv1ylpfzusg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10572</id>
      <parentid>10542</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-02T11:12:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10572</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9508" sha1="4mz3bk8xik2nem68swif90nj03huzd8" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:secondarysex.png|Do let me know, whether I should add any other research excerpts, I added the ones I found best. Also, I can add two more by increasing the size of the poster.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>4mz3bk8xik2nem68swif90nj03huzd8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10574</id>
      <parentid>10572</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-02T11:34:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10574</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9689" sha1="bz912usveeogy740nhm7ztzropbzo8l" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:secondarysex.png|Do let me know, whether I should add any other research excerpts, I added the ones I found best. Also, I can add two more by increasing the size of the poster.
File:secondary2.png|Do let me know, whether I should add any other research excerpts, I added the ones I found best. Also, I can add two more by increasing the size of the poster.

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>bz912usveeogy740nhm7ztzropbzo8l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10576</id>
      <parentid>10574</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-02T11:44:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10576</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9683" sha1="mlq1pzy5oogvj0cr29eu5ibdf90gnwe" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:secondarysex.png|Do let me know, whether I should add any other research excerpts, I added the ones I found best. Also, I can add two more by increasing the size of the poster.
File:secondary2.png|Do let me know, whether I should add any other research excerpts, I added the ones I found best. 
File:secondary3.png|Secondary harm vs Gay suicide rates

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>mlq1pzy5oogvj0cr29eu5ibdf90gnwe</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10579</id>
      <parentid>10576</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-02T23:46:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10579</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9327" sha1="73rf9hh1i5mhz1gtttd0l7ppjnnodip" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|Whataboutism : MAP vs Gay
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>73rf9hh1i5mhz1gtttd0l7ppjnnodip</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10586</id>
      <parentid>10579</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-03T01:12:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10586</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9648" sha1="3of3de07gzrmrc10xejo7elarm5u0rk" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|Maybe this would work better if you show that LGBT people are using exactly the same counterargument that was used about them. Example: Gays in 1970 and MAPs in 2020: "Our sexuality has existed in historical societies and has been observed throughout the natural world". Conservatives in 1970 and Gays in 2020: "But muh slavery and infanticide!""
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>3of3de07gzrmrc10xejo7elarm5u0rk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10590</id>
      <parentid>10586</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-03T04:09:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10590</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9374" sha1="0svqsmssx4s48p5okfdmxjykg9qlo06" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|I did a distilled version of this - delete file if you are happy with it
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>0svqsmssx4s48p5okfdmxjykg9qlo06</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10607</id>
      <parentid>10590</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-04T14:03:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10607</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9429" sha1="m4hzodv34zktujhcoq1ie6u4cd5apcg" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|I did a distilled version of this - delete file if you are happy with it
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:daniel.png|Daniel is confused whom he had sex with
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>m4hzodv34zktujhcoq1ie6u4cd5apcg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10609</id>
      <parentid>10607</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-04T17:16:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10609</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9474" sha1="fyf4m91j0w5655b1ffn5v5z1r6zu6ih" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|I did a distilled version of this - delete file if you are happy with it
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:daniel.png|Daniel is confused whom he had sex with
File:lilystory.png|Lily - a story of consent
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>fyf4m91j0w5655b1ffn5v5z1r6zu6ih</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10611</id>
      <parentid>10609</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-04T18:01:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10611</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9476" sha1="5cmn6iaghn0pi3nsql825xzfw6ix4uz" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|I did a distilled version of this - delete file if you are happy with it
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:confused.png|Daniel is confused whom he had sex with
File:lilystory.png|Lily - a story of consent
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>5cmn6iaghn0pi3nsql825xzfw6ix4uz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10612</id>
      <parentid>10611</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-04T18:04:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10612</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9477" sha1="a90b7u93o8v2k7dxynd3fj2km0xcfbj" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|I did a distilled version of this - delete file if you are happy with it
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:confused2.png|Daniel is confused whom he had sex with
File:lilystory.png|Lily - a story of consent
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>a90b7u93o8v2k7dxynd3fj2km0xcfbj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10637</id>
      <parentid>10612</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-05T12:26:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MAPCrusader</username>
        <id>42</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10637</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9538" sha1="kzwwkk7t7lvw0a5wx9e1m8caue50p3k" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|I did a distilled version of this - delete file if you are happy with it
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:confused2.png|Daniel is confused whom he had sex with
File:lilystory.png|Lily - a story of consent
File:Brainsizes.png|Inferior brain - history repeats itself

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>kzwwkk7t7lvw0a5wx9e1m8caue50p3k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10648</id>
      <parentid>10637</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-06T02:36:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New Content */</comment>
      <origin>10648</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9935" sha1="crcihdv24vqv0sje8ch3bgvzufl25uk" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:divorce.jpg|Add thiss or similar when we have space
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:Trojan_horse.jpg|CSA trojan to breach encryption laws
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|I did a distilled version of this - delete file if you are happy with it
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:confused2.png|Daniel is confused whom he had sex with
File:lilystory.png|Lily - a story of consent
File:Brainsizes.png|Inferior brain - history repeats itself
File:secondarysex.png|Secondary harm (research) &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:secondary2.png||Secondary harm (research) &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:secondary3.png|Secondary harm vs Gay suicide rates &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:YA.png|This is a tweet? I don't see the point...
File:cutties.png|This is like an essay with some argument. We have a space for essays.

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>crcihdv24vqv0sje8ch3bgvzufl25uk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10649</id>
      <parentid>10648</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-06T03:10:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>finding space for 4 memes</comment>
      <origin>10649</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9715" sha1="ig3z4z9cwt4983bdlhvqxmcc1yo22jz" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:LandMine.png|Concept/graphic needs polish/removed to create more room (working on it)
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:whataboutism2.png|I did a distilled version of this - delete file if you are happy with it
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:Brainsizes.png|Inferior brain - history repeats itself
File:secondarysex.png|Secondary harm (research) &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:secondary2.png||Secondary harm (research) &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:secondary3.png|Secondary harm vs Gay suicide rates &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:YA.png|This is a tweet? I don't see the point...
File:cutties.png|This is like an essay with some argument. We have a space for essays.

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>ig3z4z9cwt4983bdlhvqxmcc1yo22jz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10650</id>
      <parentid>10649</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-06T03:11:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <origin>10650</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9528" sha1="rcbvyof05o6tssd4yzags4zlp5cr6z5" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:BioExu2.png|Unnecessarry use of "child" in 1 instance. Should be "juvenile". (Updated and uploaded)
File:ModernWhiteMan.png|Just put "age gap", "youth" or "older-younger". Child is unnecessary. (Updated and uploaded)
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:Brainsizes.png|Inferior brain - history repeats itself
File:secondarysex.png|Secondary harm (research) &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:secondary2.png||Secondary harm (research) &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:secondary3.png|Secondary harm vs Gay suicide rates &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:YA.png|This is a tweet? I don't see the point...
File:cutties.png|This is like an essay with some argument. We have a space for essays.

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>rcbvyof05o6tssd4yzags4zlp5cr6z5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10651</id>
      <parentid>10650</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-06T03:14:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <origin>10651</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9306" sha1="tugigp26dye74fb97uc1o6bm6z8m5do" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 09:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

==OK==

So there is a lot of content now. Some of it has been successful in the Twitter campaign, and I will do more ordering to reflect that. It would be better at this point (re. common themes) to go through what content there is and look at ways of developing and improving it. What I am going to do is go over the page content with a stategic eye and remove some content, then create a gallery in here with pointers to how it could be improved.

As for things such as testimony graphics and research/fact-led information, we can push on. I'll do an update soon. --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 10:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive. More below...

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boynature.png|Good meme, but unnecessarry use of "child"
File:Kidsnt.png|This needs to be completely reworked I think, with reference to age of majority rather than "children" or "kids". It requires discussion.
File:Sor12.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:Sor33.png|Unnecessary reference to child
File:SRape.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:LieAboutAge1.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space
File:Statutory.png|Now there is a combined version of these, I removed to save space [consider linking them from the statutory rape combined file, as alternative versions, or even deleting and reuploading as alterversions]
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Trad memes===

&lt;gallery&gt;
File:Post.png|This is a more strategic use of small kids as it addresses hysteria over exposure of flesh rather than going on about them being able to consent etc. It's still in the article.
File:Bbobssuck2.png|This is the right idea... maybe open a discussion on the wording.
File:hire.jpg|This is potentially a good application of the cartoon. But it needs to start from the premise "So who is writing our explainer on the effects of CSA?", then progress through "I studied under David Finkelhor", "5 Years at Mayo Clinic", "My teacher sucked me o..."
File:chat.png|Taken to create space... think there's a betetr meme making the same point
&lt;/gallery&gt;

===New Content===
I will be adding all the new content here, as we want to set the limits on the main meme/graphics page. Whichever content you find suitable, you can pick up and put it up there on the main page. 
&lt;gallery&gt;
File:boring78.png|CSA story, audience sleep
File:shotdead.png|Do we have an example?? (We had examples, but that would make the flyer too much filled with content)
File:birdorplane.png|Is it bird or plane, no its CSA
File:LoveisLove.png|Meant to trigger/anger antis
File:MurderNoOneKilled.png|It is theft, even if nothing was stolen
File:LoveQuote.png|Love Quote with adult-teen [unfortunately all these graphics repositories have pics of adults being intimate with kids in what appears to be a parental role. As a result, they focus on a pretty big age gap and kids who look like they barely hit puberty]
File:mathsbywest.png|No mathematical operations on numbers below 18
File:Brainsizes.png|Inferior brain - history repeats itself
File:secondarysex.png|Secondary harm (research) &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:secondary2.png||Secondary harm (research) &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:secondary3.png|Secondary harm vs Gay suicide rates &lt; just flip "children" to "minors"
File:YA.png|This is a tweet? I don't see the point...
File:cutties.png|This is like an essay with some argument. We have a space for essays.

&lt;/gallery&gt;

===Discussion===
Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

==Next few days ==

What I'm going to do is go through this (content kept on talk) and delete anything that's not worth having on the site - so please save anything you have not kept copies of. Then we should probably do a post on FST and BC, and ask for feedback, particularly re. quality, and whether there is anything unusual about the focus of the material. I am pretty sure some ideas work very well, but would want to seek feedback about others.</text>
      <sha1>tugigp26dye74fb97uc1o6bm6z8m5do</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10655</id>
      <parentid>10651</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-06T06:32:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10655</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6147" sha1="dx6ckbj2yjgggpfewcmmhavrurhwzkl" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==New home for [[Index of unused memes|experimental material]]==

I will link [[Index of unused memes|this]] from the page as well. Post new material there when the editorial limits below are maxxed out, or move it there when it obviously needs some more development. For example, if a theme is too common on the main page, move surplus information to this page.

==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example.

===Bit of general guidance (from late 2021, lets keep following it)===

Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive.

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

===Sketch 4===

To attack validity sadists - see [[LGBT Validity Policing]].

Scott De Orio's definition of ''Queer'' is posed to a young gay man in 1970 and he enthusiastically agrees: "freedom for all!" (use a cat or dog reaction if you can't get a human one).

The same definition is suggested to the same gay man in 2000, and his reaction is like "um... non normative? illegal? No way, we're not with ''*them*!''"</text>
      <sha1>dx6ckbj2yjgggpfewcmmhavrurhwzkl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10890</id>
      <parentid>10655</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-01-14T04:37:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>10890</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6833" sha1="izn5wiauq2cu81jo1mthg55uc3fv5lv" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==How to save alternative versions==

Saving alternative versions of a meme can save space on the index. Do it if the meme is simply an alterantive to another, or very close in the theme it covers.

1. Save the primary version of the meme on your computer. Then upload it as an alternative version of the other meme, from the other meme's filepage. Do this any number of times with the alternative versions. You can also "revert"/choose what the primary version will be if it is not your preferred one.

2. To alert viewers that the file is part of a series - put this at the end of the description in the memes list gallery: &lt;nowiki&gt;([[:File:Fileexample.ext|series inside]])&lt;/nowiki&gt;

==New home for [[Index of unused memes|experimental material]]==

I will link [[Index of unused memes|this]] from the page as well. Post new material there when the editorial limits below are maxxed out, or move it there when it obviously needs some more development. For example, if a theme is too common on the main page, move surplus information to this page.

==Editorial limits==

Due to the growing size of this page, there will be the following editorial limits in place for the first three categories:

'''Trad Memes:''' 60 files (at limit, please replace/revise existing concepts!)
'''Troll type Memes:''' 12 file (5)
'''Infographics/Unironic Memes:''' 40 files

This means that when the limits are reached, each editor should remove some of their own material to make way for new material. Alternatively, they can work on/improve some of their own material and just replace. This does not place limits on presenting completed material here or on any such personal project page, where various merits and possibility of inclusion in this project may be discussed. We can review these limits after a year if we think there is some new material out there that merits inclusion for example.

===Bit of general guidance (from late 2021, lets keep following it)===

Right, so now I've gone through the whole thing, we '''still''' have a section which is highly biased towards prepubescent children, so this needs addressing. Prepubescent children can be useful when attacking concepts such as innocence, moral hysteria and the trauma myth (in very limited and carefully controlled ways, such as "molesting a toddler's genitals when you clean them/change it's nappy is not traumatic"). However, nothing is to be gained by making unsourced statements/opinions in relation to very young children. No firsthand testimony? No expert opinion to verify consent/disprove trauma? No elongated and elaborate argument (scholarship level critical analysis)? If so, you are just going to lose by repeatedly mentioning prepubescent children as if proving they can consent is your hobbyhorse. Also, by repeating this kind of focus, we do the same kind of thing as the NAMBLA bulletin in the 80s, and just play into this idea of being a pedophile liberation organization. It's a lose-lose.

A lot of this is unnecessary use of "child" where it could refer to a broader group (teens, minors, underage, youth, or kids - although that sounds like "child" to an American). Most Americans think of small children - prepubes when you say "child", so this is easily misunderstood. The material needs to be directed more towards the age groups documented in the accounts and testimonies section, and our research. Our own position on AoC is 12-16, see [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]] so why push "child"? "Child" can be used in certain situations, such as referring to innocence or when dealing with mindfuck type scenarios such as the landmine meme I suspended below. Using "child" all the time is just counterproductive.

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

===Sketch 4===

To attack validity sadists - see [[LGBT Validity Policing]].

Scott De Orio's definition of ''Queer'' is posed to a young gay man in 1970 and he enthusiastically agrees: "freedom for all!" (use a cat or dog reaction if you can't get a human one).

The same definition is suggested to the same gay man in 2000, and his reaction is like "um... non normative? illegal? No way, we're not with ''*them*!''"</text>
      <sha1>izn5wiauq2cu81jo1mthg55uc3fv5lv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>14250</id>
      <parentid>10890</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-08-29T22:07:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The Admins</username>
        <id>15</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>14250</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4382" sha1="2jujmb2c666klj2tklx0q3xh7es7cum" xml:space="preserve">__NOTOC__==How to save alternative versions==

Saving alternative versions of a meme can save space on the index. Do it if the meme is simply an alterantive to another, or very close in the theme it covers.

1. Save the primary version of the meme on your computer. Then upload it as an alternative version of the other meme, from the other meme's filepage. Do this any number of times with the alternative versions. You can also "revert"/choose what the primary version will be if it is not your preferred one.

2. To alert viewers that the file is part of a series - put this at the end of the description in the memes list gallery: &lt;nowiki&gt;([[:File:Fileexample.ext|series inside]])&lt;/nowiki&gt;

==New home for [[Index of unused memes|experimental material]]==

I will link [[Index of unused memes|this]] from the page as well. Post new material there when the editorial limits below are maxxed out, or move it there when it obviously needs some more development. For example, if a theme is too common on the main page, move surplus information to this page.

==Stonetoss==

Someone should study the mechanisms of the cartoonist Stonetoss and apply them to our subject - with or without a cartoon --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 19:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

==Sketch==

Explaining "bad touch"

Teacher: Sooo... when you trip over and graze your knee, that's bad touch

Boy: yes

Teacher: When the intruder hits you in the head with a baseball bat, that's bad touch

Boy: I know

Teacher: Good. So when Uncle Chester touches you in your swimsuit area, that's ALSO bad touch

Boy: Why, it felt good last time he did it?

Teacher (with shrinking/disappearing text a la leftist meme):

You are unable to give informed consent due to an inherent power imbalance owing to your developmental deficiencies in relation to this individual. This makes the interaction not only morally wrong, but exploitative and in addition to that, an abuse of trust because established social boundaries have been contravened. Further, this action is imcopatible with various codependencies and attachment norms between the two individuals and may only produce long term traumas, thus being perceived as innocuous at the time by the victim. --[[User:JohnHolt|JohnHolt]] ([[User talk:JohnHolt|talk]]) 23:38, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

===Sketch 2===

A man is on a beach, giving a massage to a young teenage girl. Fat Karen is in the background.

Masseur: Oh, wait a minute. [Fat Karen is walking over]

Fat Karen: EXCUSE ME, but can you stop what you are doing please.

Masseur: Wh....

Fat Karen: You are triggering my personal memories of childhood sexual abuse, and I find it deeply traumatic!

Masseur: I'm sorry to hear that, but she is a high school track athlete and has a competition tomorrow. This is a physiotherapy treatment.

Fat Karen: BUT I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

Masseur: But this is not sexual abuse, we are minding our own business.

Fat Karen (with disappearing leftist meme speech bubble):

I WILL NOT ACCEPT
that you are not sexually abusing this little girl
this is VILE and DEGENERATE sexual molestation going on in plain sight
and you do not understand the deeply traumatic nature of these acts and should be ashame...

[the girl is pictured running off into the distance without a bikini top, as two men in Fat Karen's group turn their heads appetitively]

===Sketch 3===

A MAP speaker and a LGBT are pictured in different panels speaking before their audience.

LGBT: "Welcome, fellow Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Non Binary, Two-spirit...

MAP: "Greetings, fellow MAPs, Yesmaps and NOMAPS...

'''Shared''' speech bubble: "Today is a special day to celebrate our history; our people. Fine people like Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Harry Hay... OUR people."

===Sketch 4===

To attack validity sadists - see [[LGBT Validity Policing]].

Scott De Orio's definition of ''Queer'' is posed to a young gay man in 1970 and he enthusiastically agrees: "freedom for all!" (use a cat or dog reaction if you can't get a human one).

The same definition is suggested to the same gay man in 2000, and his reaction is like "um... non normative? illegal? No way, we're not with ''*them*!''"

==Pedo jokes==

A good list, see here [https://secure.boychat.org/messages/1596737.htm] --[[User:The Admins|The Admins]] ([[User talk:The Admins|talk]]) 22:07, 29 August 2022 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2jujmb2c666klj2tklx0q3xh7es7cum</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
</mediawiki>