6 comments on "Absolutely Bad…"

• I wonder whether absolutism breeds prejudice, or whether in fact prejudice breeds absolutism. I suppose that they are inextricably perpetuating.

  Perhaps I grow softer with age, but I find that my former abhorrence of those who apply absolutist principles to underlie a particular generalization pales against my pity for their intellectual deficiency. It is – admittedly – a very human tenancy to attempt to impose control over uncertainty by dealing in absolutes. To my mind, it exposes a fundamental insecurity or feeling of helplessness. Desperately needing to define, label, limit…is really an irrational attempt to construct order from chaos. There must be a right and a wrong – otherwise how do we know where we stand in relation to the world? Acceptance of nuance is undoubtedly a frightening loss of control, hence the camouflage of absolutism which protects against, as you say, ‘real life relativity’.

• “Absolutism breeds elitism and prejudice”

  If all one can conceptualise is good and bad (people, ideas), the subjective person will always be elite, and the truth should be so obvious as to justify pre-judgement.

  And for those who are (relatively) less absolutist, the relationship could be seen in reverse, i.e. when someone is forced to challenge unsupportable ideas that they have been fed, they would resort to an unusually absolutist argument to justify a belief that may be prejudicial.

  Strato ~ Perhaps I grow softer with age, but I find that my former abhorrence of those who apply absolutist principles to underlie a particular generalization pales against my pity for their intellectual deficiency.

  I don’t feel pity, nor do I feel the pressing urge to attack adherents of ideas that are a hinderence to progress. To me, they are just obstructive. How do you remove that obstruction?

• I don’t feel pity, nor do I feel the pressing urge to attack….To me they are just obstructive.

  I think that’s an admirably Machiavellian aspiration. It is a goal, or a representation? i.e. given that you are only human, do you find the clinical dispassion easy to sustain?

• That kind of goes with my character, though. I might feel anger against someone who is blatantly ignorant, and like so many I come across, seems to almost be revelling in it, and I might feel anger against certain ideas as well. In that sense, an unemotional application may just be representative, but not at all hard to maintain.

  Still, I know one Boylover who (jokingly) calls the death penalty on anti-intellectuals of all kinds, and I can certainly understand where that kind of emotion comes from, especially among our more experienced peers. And I myself have come across in a less than restrained manner, when so much is justified (Violet for example). But even that’s not so much attacking the person (blame and free will are redundant concepts used for practical, non philosophical purposes), but rather their ideas and fakery.

• Strato,

  “…but I find that my former abhorrence of those who apply absolutist principles to underlie a particular generalization pales against my pity for their intellectual deficiency.”

  I think it is best not to let ourselves get to drawn into the maddening nature of it all, or be angry about it all the time…even though, harnessed anger can be useful.

  I was not angry when I wrote this, but the general subject does cause a certain level of frustration (as obviously, it would)…and I just wanted to write a short bit, regarding absolutism, it’s base flaw and why it is bad for a population.

  Mostly, this is just something quick I wrote up, after running across something, and wanting to get the ideas recorded before they left my mind (and where they vanish from there, is anybody’s guess…I’ve lost some very good ideas, because of failure to write them down.)

  It fits in well, with another (much longer) piece I wrote about being a relativist…which will end up on ISD…maybe I’ll post it here, too…but, I’m often reluctant to post the long essays on a community blog, since I feel like I’m pushing other people’s contributions way down, and “out of sight”.

  I can identify with your sense of pity, as well. There is an enormous amount of naivety…and I must confess, even in the midst of confronting some of our more vicious attackers, I’ve had moments of clarity…really just understanding, that these people have been set up, right along with you and I. They have been manipulated, and raised on bad information, just like you and I.

  They lack the benefit, of having gone on the same, eye opening journey, and discovering what all exists to be uncovered…and exposed…the journey, those of us involved here, have been on.

  In so many ways, this is what has always stopped me from responding in kind, to people like…say…all the “blog bandits” over on blogspot.

  Oh sure, how I respond is largely based around preserving my own class, integrity and dignity…but I also realize, that those people who are acting so foul, are behaving in relation to a false premise…which established “authorities” have led them to believe is correct.

  I recall this interview…and I forget who was speaking, but it was this woman who was talking about the initiative to force “intelligent design” into public school, science classes.

  …and she cited this instance, where a teenage student became belligerent, and yelled out something to the effect, “I’m not listening to these lies of the devil!”, when the classroom teacher started to talk about evolution.

  It always stuck with me, what she said…and I am summarizing here…

  …You cant be mad at these kinds of kids, who have been brought up in just such a way, as to force their intellectual skills into strict conformity. It is all they have ever know.

  In fact, it is heartbreaking and tragic, because these kids have very literally been set up for failure…and a very hard, perplexing confrontation with the realities of life, later on down the road.

  Maybe, they will live insulated in their clubs, clicks and clans…and maybe they wont have their own worlds turned upside down by it all…but, they will be inhibited, and they will hold back others.

  As I see it, this is the exact same type of situation, as what we face, when even your common, good person starts attacking people like us.

  These people have been set up for a forced conflict…and they do pay some price in this, even if it is not typically as bad to themselves as the price we have to endure.

  They are not so much “bad” people, in and of themselves…or by their own nature…but they are being manipulated, for a bad purpose.

  Daniel…good observation.

  I hate to write so much in response to Strato, and leave you with such a short response, but I honestly have nothing more to add (which is coming to mind).

• Steve – your thoughts are, as always, calm and lucid 🙂 As you observe, social conditioning affects us all, and it is useful to remind ourselves that we are not exempt – even though our perspectives have been clarified by the challenges, attacks and alignments that we have individually had to negotiate.

  I look forward to reading your thoughts on relativism – either here or at EQ. It’s obviously important for MAAs not to be drawn into the same dogma that characterizes the rhetoric of so many of our opponents. It’s a natural tendency, of course…when we are on the front line of a (frequently defensive) battle, it would be difficult not to meet fire with fire, and to be distracted from the larger war.

  The latter – the ‘larger war’ – I place in the general realm of the construction of social structure, and particularly the relative powers of Individual versus State. Others may think differently, which is good. Either way, it is important that we have these discussions into the broader nature of the place of MAAs within the human experience and condition, and not let ourselves be pasted into a narrow corner of dogmatism – in other words, to isolate ourselves and our arguments on our opponents’ terms.

  This broadening of thought is something which I know Dan has set out to achieve with Newgon – and it is great to see this aspiration taking shape with the variety of posters that Newgon is attracting.

  So far as the qualities necessary for the ‘long-haul’ are concerned, I think the reappearance of the – indomitable – EQ Foundation amply demonstrates to the the wagers of genocide that passive submission is not an option for us.

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