View source for List of conflicting statements by victimologists

__NOTOC__{{Template:Lists}}Since the "problematization" or "[[Child Sexual Abuse|CSA]]" [[Moral panic|panic]] began in the 1970s, professional victimologists (chief among them, [[Moral enterprise|religious moralists]] and [[Feminism|"radical" feminists]]) have pushed contradicting narratives and soundbites on the topic of [[pedophilia]], "[[child molestation]]" and children's trauma response. This page will eventually grow to critique those conflicting narratives, [[Often_repeated_themes_in_anti-pedophile_literature|cliches]] and talking points. At this point in time, we present individual statements that range from the calamitous and unfortunate, right through to de-facto admissions of [[Research: Secondary Harm|secondary victimization]] of minors.

[[David Sonenschein]]'s meticulous ''[[Pedophiles on Parade]]'' is another source of absurd contradictions in the CSA narrative.

==Direct Quotes==

===Secondary Harm===

*'''APA press release: [http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2004/08/online-sex-abuse.aspx Online Sex Abuse Cases Not Characterized By Deception, Abduction And Force, Research Shows]'''
*:"The authors also recommend training for law enforcement since some of the targeted youth may not initially see themselves as victims and may require sensitive interviewing in order to cooperate with investigators."

*'''[http://english.pravda.ru/news/society/23-09-2008/106434-tony_alamo_christian-0/ Arkansas official: Children seized from evangelical compound were in danger], Associated Press, 23 September, 2008: '''
*:"A child psychologist not involved in the Alamo case said that investigators will have to be careful interviewing the minors, particularly because some of them may have been taught to believe that any abuse that may have occurred was not wrong. 'If they don't believe it was abusive, that may be truly what their reality is at this point,' said Dr. Janice Church, assistant director of the Family Treatment Program at Arkansas Children's Hospital. 'It's going to take a lot of cautious interviewing and careful relationship-building just to get them to distinguish between reality and what they may have been programmed or taught to believe.'"

*'''Rosalind Prober (victim advocate) talking to Mike Oliveira of Canada.com - article: "[https://web.archive.org/web/20220520162602/https://sarniasgun.proboards.com/thread/68/current-news-children-crisis?page=2 Police fighting child porn brace for 2007 after a year of shocking firsts]" (28 December 2006)'''
*:"Young people often argue with you that what they're doing is what they want to do and the person on the Internet is really their boyfriend, they weren't sexually exploited and they wanted to raise their shirts and show their breasts over the Internet," Prober said. "It takes a lot of debriefing and deprogramming to get those children to view themselves as victims, which they truly are, a compliant victim."

*'''[https://web.archive.org/web/20091121181950/https://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Thousands_of_UK_children_trafficked_for_%91sex_parties&in_article_id=771190&in_page_id=34 Lisa Stacey] ([[Barnardo's]] "researcher") in Metro (Nov, 2009)'''
*:"The children are basically brainwashed. Some will even believe that the man who is grooming them is their boyfriend. It can take some of them a year of counselling to realise that they've been abused.."

*'''[[David Finkelhor|Finkelhor, David]] (1990). "Early and long-term effects of child sexual abuse: An update," ''Professional Psychology: Research and Practice'', 21(5), pp. 325-330.'''
*:"However, much sexual abuse does not occur under conditions of danger, threat, and violence. Many abusers, misusing their authority or manipulating moral standards, act with the child's trust. Sometimes the fact of having been abused is recognized only in retrospect as children learn more about appropriate conduct. The trauma of sexual abuse can result from the meaning of the act (“I am being exploited”) as much as from the physical danger."

:*'''[[David Finkelhor|Finkelhor, David]] (2022). [https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/unh-professor-appears-to-defend-pedophilia/ "University of New Hampshire professor appears to defend pedophilia, says kids sometimes initiate sexual activities,"] ''Law Enforcement Today'''''
:::"If young people are initiating sexual activities with adults, or enthusiastically involved [...] we can’t be effective in working with them if we assume that all such relationships start with a predatory or criminally inclined adult. As we’ve seen in the discussion, young people bridle at being forced into this box of being seen as the victim of a predator."

*'''[[James Cantor|Cantor, James]] (2020).  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6oJj6b5FQM&t=5055s "A Crash Course in Sexology | with Dr. James Cantor"]'''
*:"The research is more complicated than most people would appreciate. What appears to cause the greatest harm, the research seems to indicate that it's less the actual physical contact, and more the pressure and the coercion and the techniques that the perpetrator uses in order to gain access to the kid. It's the manipulation, it's the threats, it's the threats of what the perpetrator will do if the kid tells anybody. The betrayal of not being able to talk when other family members are present (the majority of these cases happen inside families). That kind of psychological manipulation surrounding the physical abuse, that does the primary psychological damage."
[[File:Lloydmartin.jpg|thumb|Detective [[Lloyd Martin]] "Elder Statesman" of the 1980s anti-abuse movement, was responsible for more than his fair share of absurd statements. Pictured surrounded with [[Child Pornography|Youth Erotica]], one particular crutch of his choosing. Played an instrumental role in establishing the LAPD’s Sexually Exploited Child Unit in 1976, and he had coordinated police crackdowns on alleged “chicken hawks”—adult men with a sexual interest in underage boys—in Los Angeles since the early 1970s]]
*'''[[Ann W. Burgess|Burgess, A. W.]]; Hartman, C. R.; McCausland, M. P.; Powers, P. (1984). "Response Patterns in Children and Adolescents Exploited Through Sex Rings and Pornography," ''American Journal of Psychiatry'', 141(5), pp. 656-662.'''
*:"In talking about the event the child who identifies with the exploiter minimizes the exploition and pornography, resents the interference of the authorities, and feels there is "much ado about nothing." The child maintains emotional, social, and economic ties with the offender and feels sorry or angry that the adult was exposed and convicted. The problem and "hassle" are seen as caused by the authorities and interveners ("Why don't you get off my case?")."

*'''Hall, Steve (2009). "[https://web.archive.org/web/20090822190149/https://www.lep.co.uk/news/fiends-may-appear-as-friends.5565127.jp Fiends may appear as friends]," ''Lancashire Evening Post'', 18 August.'''
*:Det Sgt Warren Atkinson: "Parents and social workers may find convincing the young person they are a victim extremely difficult."

*'''Oprah Winfrey (2020). [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/28/facebook-posts/claims-oprah-condones-pedophilia-take-her-comments/ PolitiFact: Claims that Oprah condones pedophilia take her comments out of context].'''
*:""Even if you don’t have a name for what that is, it feels good," Winfrey said, "And when I first said this years ago people were like, ‘you're crazy,’ because everyone wants to believe that it’s like sexual assault and you’re being thrown up against a wall and you’re being raped, and I have said for years if the abuser is any good, you won’t even know it’s happening.""

*'''Fabella, Frederick Edward. (2023). [https://cognizancejournal.com/vol3issue6/V3I612.pdf The Lived Experiences of Social Workers Handling Child Sexual Abuse Cases.] 130-172. DOI: 10.47760/cognizance.2023.v03i06.009.'''
*:Social Worker: "Unmanageable behavior of the child after a couple of days staying at the [Philippines] residential center. Some of them escaping and trying to kill themselves"

===Broken narrative===

*'''[http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/isl/id/38013 Illinois Investigating Commission] (1980)'''
*:“The relationships established with the offenders seemed, at least at the time, to be the only valid relationships many of the victims ever had had. Transcripts . . . include that final phrase ‘his best friend’ too often to be mere coincidence.”<ref>De Orio, ''[https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/138757/sadeorio_1.pdf Punishing Queer Sexuality in the Age of LGBT Rights]'' (2017), p168</ref>

===Absurdisms===

*'''DA Roger Cognata (1982). Quoted in "Testimony vs. Privacy: court decision in 30 days". ''Imperial Valley Press'' (California). Cited in [[David Sonenschein|Sonenschein]] (1998): ''Pedophiles on Parade''.
*:"We have a duty to protect a minor whether she likes it or not"

*'''Det. [[Lloyd Martin]] (1984). [https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/100127NCJRS.pdf At the Symposium ''Protecting Our Children: The Fight Against Molestation''] (pp 199-204, printed by US DoJ and available online)'''
*:"Once a pedophile gets his grip on your son or daughter, you and I as parents cannot compete"

*'''Det. [[Lloyd Martin]] (1977). In ''[https://annas-archive.org/md5/73539a4cfca91bae18a740b0e25b2fb6 The encyclopedia of conspiracies and conspiracy theories]'' (2005), pp. 328-329.'''
*:“They bring them in eight at a time under the floorboards [...] Then they take them to a motel and clean them up. It’s getting more violent. It’s as if the kids aren’t enough. Now there’s a need for blood.”

==References==

[[Category:Official Encyclopedia]][[Category:Research into effects on Children]][[Category:Research: Victimology and other Pseudoscience]][[Category:Child Advocacy]][[Category:Logic]][[Category:TV & Media]][[Category:Lists and Special Articles]]