Testimony: CSA (Children's Sexual Advances)

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Man-Girl | Man-Boy | Woman-Minor Minor-initiated | Among minors Nonphysical childhood sexuality Adult attraction to minors
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Here follows a few examples of the younger partner (child or older minor) making a clear advance. These are a selected few accounts and do not represent all such accounts in the project.

Bruce Rind gives a number of accounts of minor-adult sex initiated by the minor in a 2001 study ("Gay and Bisexual Adolescent Boys' Sexual Experiences With Men").

• Between a boy of 12 and a man of 22: "It lasted 9 months with his science teacher. "It developed over time and was great. We became friends and I invited him over once when my parents weren't home. I practically had to force sex on him because he was afraid about losing his job. Ended when I went away for the summer and he wasn't a teacher at my school no more."

• Between a boy of 12 and a man of 25: "The man was a family friend; the sex was mutually initiated, oral, off and on for 10 years (a couple of times per month), and "physically great." It confused the subject that the man was married, yet was willing to have sex with him. "Eventually I fell in love with him; knew I was gay but did not broadcast this; I was curious because of the age difference. Mutual oral sex happened after he fondled me; it was the first orgasm I ever had."

• Between a boy of 13 and a man of 38: ""Family friend. I initiated on a camping trip; we were in same tent at state park; oral sex to orgasm for both of us; several times during the night; incredibly erotic, tremendous release, very pleasurable. Not real close; didn't enjoy kissing. Afterwards scary because I enjoyed it so much. Not wanting to be near him on the trip because afraid others would notice. Once per month for the next 4 years that I initiated; never talked about it; sex was all it was. Wished I was straight so the attractions would go away, because the sexual gratification was so strong."

In his book Infant and Child Sexuality, Floyd Martinson cites three cases of children making sexual advances towards a parent.

• "Alice was disturbed by her mother's agitation and breathing during intercourse. She otherwise seemed happy with being with her parents as they made love. Her mother explained the whole thing very carefully one day. Her daughter then said, "I want to make love with you, Mommy." At first her mother didn't know what to do and then decided to go along as long as her daughter seemed okay. She put her hand on her daughter's genitals and suggested Alice put hers on top, showing her mother how it felt best. Her daughter started moving rhythmically and breathing heavily, exactly as she had seen her mother do. Her motion and breathing gradually built up to a climax and she relaxed. Whether she actually reached orgasm or mimicked it is uncertain. She was happy and thanked her mother. (Constantine)."

• "Barb, at five, appeared to be completely comfortable being present when her parents made love. Her parents were casual about sensual interactions with their children. One day Barb asked, "Dad, can I have a 'love-in' with you?" "Well, maybe when you're older, if you still want to we can talk about it." It was an honest reply, not a put-off, and satisfied her. She continued to have interest in erotic involvement with her father with no apparent anxieties on the part of either daughter or father. (Constantine)."

• "Dianna [age 2]: "Daddy, would you kiss my clitoris?" Casually, Daddy says, "Sure." Bends over and gives her a light smack. Dianna: "No, do it long like you do to Mommy." The father reports he thought briefly about it and decided there was no harm in it. Dianna enjoyed it and later asked for a repeat performance. (Constantine)."

Bruce Rind, Blinded by Politics and Morality, in Censoring Sex Research, edited by Hubbard and Verstraete 2013, pp. 291-292. Recalls the experience of Clarence A. Tripp, Ph. D. (1919 - May 17, 2003), a psychologist, photographer, therapist, writer, gay activist, and researcher for Dr. Alfred Kinsey:

• "When he was 5 years old, growing up in Oklahoma, one day his mother called a repairman to go under the house, which was raised up on stilts, to fix a leak. Tripp followed the man, whom he later referred to as Gandhi (his “liberator”), and could see his penis through a crack in his pants. Within one minute, Tripp reported, he “seduced” the man, performing oral sex on him “before he knew it.” How did a 5-year-old know to do this? He answered that it emerged out of nowhere but just felt right; he had no prior sexual experience or knowledge. The man began pushing the boy away, but with “curiosity,” in Tripp’s perception, so the boy did not believe the rebuff and continued the sex act. he remembered that the man was “floored,” but reported that he himself “loved it all.” When he was a bit older, Tripp recalled sitting on the lap of several uncles, intentionally giving them erections without their seeming to know by just moving around. he said he would jump on their laps, asking them to teach him to read, for example, adding that “it was all subterfuge, a trick to get on their lap.” he said he was always “on the prowl” during his boyhood".

Brooke Hopkins. A Question of Child Abuse, Raritan, Vol. 13 Issue 2, Fall 1993. (13 pages).; a copy

Literature professor Brooke Hopkins (1942-2013), recalled his erotic feelings/behavior directed towards his mother at 6-years-old, in 1948. Fondling his mother across several weeks as she slept in his bed, Hopkins gestures towards secondary/iatrogenic harm where his experience becomes traumatic after "my father had pulled my mother, screaming, down the hall to their bedroom", a violent reaction which Hopkins interprets as a father's attempt to regain control. Hopkins wrote:

• "I would like to try to describe what it feels like for a six-year-old boy to lie next to his mother in a situation of such relative intimacy all night. My mother wore a long, ankle-length nightgown [...]. It was tightly fitting, and you could see through it, especially if it was illuminated from behind as it often was in the light of the door, could see the dark V of her pubic hair, the hairs themselves, and the dark spots of her nipples. When my mother got into bed on those nights she would almost invariably lie with her back to me, despite all of my mostly self-interested efforts to coax her to do otherwise [...]. At thirty-four, she was tall and quite slender, with smallish breasts and incredibly soft skin. Despite the difference in our sizes, we seemed to fit together pretty well in the traditional spoon position [...and] at the age of six [...] such closeness was [...] engulfing and fantastically exciting."

"My most urgent need was to try to find out what would make my mother feel better, make her unhappiness go away. I knew what made me feel better when I was unhappy: expressions of concern, gentle stroking, expressions of love. On occasions when I needed it, my father would soothe me to sleep by rubbing my back and my buttocks (which was also erotically very stimulating). I tried the same thing. I would rub my mother's back until she fell asleep, or until I fell asleep. I would pass my hand down over her buttocks, trying to use the same gentle stroking motion my father used with me, occasionally passing it between her buttocks to see what that felt like, to see how she would respond. Partly because her back was turned, I could never tell when she was asleep or just pretending to be asleep. I could never really tell what was going on in her mind. [...]

I do not think that she ever intended to arouse me sexually. In fact, I think she would have been shocked to discover how aroused I was. Her culture was strictly Victorian, pre-Freudian, [...] and deeply conservative both socially and politically. But the fact is that it didn't take long under the circumstances of our nights together for me to become almost unbearably excited by being so intimately in bed with her, by exploring her body with my hands (or as much of it as I could with her back to me), feeling her warmth and her smell. Sometimes my penis would be so stiff from rubbing against her that I was afraid it would break off, literally like a stick. [...]

One moment in all this stands out with special clarity for me. I had become increasingly shameless in my efforts to explore with my hands and fingers what were for me the secret parts of my mother's body. Her vagina was particularly mysterious to me, and I desperately wanted to touch it, to see what it felt like, to see if she would permit me to touch that part of her. She seemed to like it when I passed my fingers between her buttocks, or at least she never protested, but would lie there quite still letting me do what I wanted. One night, thinking that I might just be able to explore further, I waited until I believed she had gone to sleep, waited what seemed like a incredibly long time in a heightened state of anticipation. I knew that what I was about to do was taboo - it was one reason my mother always had her back to me - but I had to do it, had to touch her there to see what it was like. After an unbearable wait, I summoned up all of my courage and began cautiously to move my hand toward the place about which I had such curiosity. As I approached it, pausing for long periods to see if there was any change in her breathing, she gave a sudden shake and said sleepily, "No, I'm sorry. You can't touch me there. That place is saved for your father." I don't recall exactly what I replied to this expression of marital propriety. Something like: "Is it still okay to touch everywhere else?" I was startled, chastened. But there was no alternative except to accept the logic […] despite the fact that she came down the hall to sleep with me every night and seemed to like all the other things I did. Her words, however, had the effect of reminding me that some things were still out of bounds, that […] my father was still the one in control."

Newgon: We believe this account is valuable to preserve for its problematization of dominant CSA accounts, despite its contradictory statements and ethnocentric (i.e. western) bias (see our non-western accounts). In one contradiction, Hopkins begins by writing "Whether this story turns out to be about "child sexual abuse" is up to the reader to decide", that "such categories are ultimately irrelevant compared to the experience itself", but then ends by rendering his experience a form of passive abuse. Hopkins argues his mother "should have known better than to have allowed the situation to develop as it did" - i.e. have not slept in his bed - and does not consider the possiblity of other sources of mother-son eroticism (e.g. everyday closeness, washing together).

Loretta Haroian describes one case in "Child Sexual Development" (2000)

"Three-year old D was a highly sexed boy who had been involved in sex play with age mates and an older child. He asked his therapist if she wanted to put her mouth on his “dinky.” When she replied in the negative, he pleaded “you'll like it,” “I'll pay you money,” “I'll be your best friend.” When asked if he liked to “play dinky,” he frowned menacingly, clenched his fists and aggressively replied, “yes, I like it, and I'm not going to stop!”"

Responses garnered from an online survey at BoyLover.net:

• ”yeh so meny times ive been working in a school since september and a have serously lost count at how many times it has happened. and most of the time in plan sight” (many boylovers echoed this sentiment)

• ”I'm a junior high school teacher, and I've been teaching for 10 years now. I work with kids with academic and behavior problems, mostly boys between 12 and 14. This situation happens at least with 2 or 3 boys every year ... For example, last year, one of my boys came to see me after school, and told me that I was giving him a hard-on every time he looks at me. This year, I have a student who told me that he would like me to be his first sex partner!”

• ”But some of them are real flirts, real extroverts, who would strip completely and run around naked, then flash their willy or bend over and give me a brown-eye if I said anything ... Every now and again however one of them will come back to me without his friends, and take my hand, and just want to ask me "growing-up" questions or talk to me or cuddle mostly. Not saying any more . . .”

• ”Last summer at the pool a kid I didn't even know swam over and took my hand and put it in his private area” (crotch grabbing, flashing (inc. erection bearing) and voyeurism are well documented behaviours of curious boys)

• ”in my lifetime, i have been flirted with, mooned at, flashed at, and have been innapropriatly touched by various youngsters. i suppose we have to realise its strange old world out there”

• ”One of my YF's (13 at the time) placed his hands on his hips right in front of me,lowering his track pants so I could see his briefs... it was done very provocatively... Another (10 at the time) would take my hand whenever I sat next to him,then place it on his...sensitive place”

• ”I use to go swimming after my workout in the gym 3 times a week and some boys would come on to me shy and quiet and others plain and rampant. My love is boys under 11 and only 1 boy in this age range came on to me. When i was showering and dressing he watched me closely while staying naked himself, covered but not. (if you see what i mean) The next week i saw him in the pool and he followed me out into the changing room. same again. In time we became friends we talked and laughed together”

• ”YA! he was talking to me and stuff and then he started rubbing up against me i was trying not to get all "excited" lol but yes i was thrilled!”

• ”One boy who slept with me on the living room floor by the stove on the colest morning found my hand on his stomach, so he moved his groin up to where my hand was and started humping. A boy took my hand and placed it on his groin, too, but he was always displaying his boner. He couldn't do that with people in the next room, so I guess he did the closest thing possible. I've been kissed by boys on the lips, and a few slipped me a tongue, all ages. Some in the shower would turn around and get a feel to see if I was getting hard, but it went no further. Kind of an eye-opener as far as what boys will do to initiate things. Some people swear that it never happens that way”

• ”4 of my lfs would kiss me on the lips, and the mothers had no probs with it. But sometimes, they would push the intensity, and each of these put their tongues in to test the limit. The taking your hand to their crotch seems to happen alot, cuz it's happened to me. Flashing, particularly a boner, or getting one before, during, or after a bath happened alot even when we already had a clear decision made on no inappropriate touching. Humping a leg or a hand has ocurred, and putting something in their lap and stroking it for teasing has, too”

• ”Oh I've had couple of y/f's trying to place my hand on their "sensitive place", but the biggest flirt, if you would call it that, for me would have to be the time one of my y/f's spoke to me about being called "gay" at school and I told him what it ment after finding out it was something to do with me, he went quiet for a moment then asked if I would be his b/f”

• ”I have had boys from age 10 to 14 flirt or comeon to me while teaching them swimming. It probably happens with at least 3 boys out of every group I work with. I don't know if they sense about me liking boys or what but they can be pretty forward about it. I have had kids who i am teaching to swim push my hand down to their crotch areas while I am holding them in the pool. I have had kids linger after the session ended and come into to the changing room when Im changing and let me see their little bones as they change. Just the other day I had a 11 yr. who I was holding in the water so he could practice his breast stroke put his hand down under the water and rest it on my crotch. At first this all kind of surprised me but it seems th emore classes I work with the more I see it”

• ”i have on many occsions. a few have sat on me and grab my croach one pushed me back that i was wresltling and he got on top of me and started feeling my croach for a while. i didnt want it 2 stop”

• ”Yeah, I had a friend that would tell me to touch his...whenever he had a boner. Then he would joke around and say it was a crayon, or something in his pocket. Very hot”

• ”Oh Yes! My SYF flirts with me alot. I could write a whole chapter on all the times he done something to get my attention. He's so open about it that even his old sister (15 yo) has teased me about "It must be nice to have a 10 yo boy that has a crush on you." And when no one else is around he flirts on an entirely other level. Just recently I was sitting on the couch with him while his a playing zelda on a gameboy. I was leaning on his knee (he was laying longways on the couch with his knees up). I was feeling kinda sleepy and everyone else had went to bed. he shifted his knee and grabed my head with his legs and pulled my face into his groin. I didn't feel safe keeping my head there too long since anyone in the house could walk in on us, but it was long enough for me to feel his pulse, if you know what I mean. But that made his intentions to me quite clear. Another time after that he walked up to the side of me while I was on their computer and put his mouth completely around my ear, then asked me if I wanted to do the same thing to him. I'm usally accepting of any advances he makes towards me”

• ”I was watching a 7 yr old boy once, he wanted to wrestle. We were wearing jeans, after a while he wanted to wrestle in just our underwear. So we did that as well and there was more contact than normal. We were both pretty excited after a while and then I had to explain to him why that happens. It was fun to say the least!”

• ”I have had many boys flirt with me, but I have to say the most memorable time was when I was 17 and went to a girlfriend's house to play cards with her, her sister, and mother. I knew she had a brother, but I had never seen him. We were playing cards and he walked into the dining room asking for help with his math homework. He was 12 with dark brown hair and brown eyes and the most perfect build. No one else wanted to help him, so I volunteered and followed him up to his room. His book and papers were on a TV tray next to the bed, so I sat down on the bed and picked up his book. He sat down beside me and literally rammed his entire body against mine. I gave him a funny look and he just smiled even more. It quickly became apparant that he did not need help and one time when I looked into his eyes, only a couple of inches from mine, he clamped a lip-lock on me and tried to slide his tongue in my mouth. I was rescued by his sister coming upstairs to use the bathroom and went back downstairs with her. Another time I stopped by the house and knocked at the side door and he shouted up from the basement. The doors were open next to the side door and I looked down the stairs to see him standing there completely naked and soaked. I ascertained that he was the only one home and left, but his big smile told me he was enjoying the situation immensely!!!” “Couple weeks ago i went to the football and a boy i was with suggestivly sucked on a bottle then said my bf jamie likes me to do it to him, want me to do it to you... I was with family and friends at the time, he then started laughing as i blushed and went completely silent,because he's a real cute 11 year old”

• ”Yes, I love boys that flirt with me. My last girlfriends son was a flirt big time. Even just reached out one day and just grabbed my private parts....used to love to play wrestle with him”

• ”i once woke up middle of the night at my mates to find his 11yr old cute as bro spoonng naked with me! i was a little shoced, but i'l leave it there!”

• ”It's happened to me numerous times, starting way back in 7th grade and continuing to the present - and I'm in my 50's. One time, I took this kid fishing. He said, "I'm horny." I said, "Prove it." He did. Oh, boy! We didn't catch many fish”

• ”my little cousin on more than one occasion would sit next to me in an empty room, while watching tv and grab my hand and shove it down his pants. i didnt really know what to do, so whenever he comes over i try to stay in a room full of people”

Online survey on boys who have floored BoyLover.net members:

Some authors noted general curiousity; initiating kisses and asking intimate questions.

• ”Once I asked a super cute, friendly, if troublesome 9-year-old boy why did he think I liked him so much. He just looked me in the eye, smiled, and said, "Because I'm a boy." Golly, he had me pegged!”

• ”I used to live nextdoor to a family of russians..They had 7 kids, 5 were boys.. one day we were all sitting on the stairs. I was trying my hardest to teach them english.. one of the boys just came up and started kissing the back of my neck. I turned my head around and he gave me "the look" and kissed me on the lips. The brothers just started giggling and he had the biggest smile on his face... I was about 16 and boy was 7.. One of my greatest boy moments..”

• ”I was once asked by a 9 year old lad "What's your AOA?"“ (age of attraction!)

• ”When I was in college, helping out at a recreation center, I was sitting on the steps talking with a group of boys when one hopped up on my lap and hugged me. He had a boner was pressing it against me. He looked me in the eyes, hugged me again and whispered in my ear "...I love you..." ... A few minutes later he asked me "What time is it?" I told him and with a a wonderful smile, he asked, "Will you be here tomorrow?" I said, "Yes." He said, "See you tomorrow!" and whispered, "I really do love you." and ran off”

Goethe on GirlChat:

"I remember there was a 7 yo girl who was the daughter of my parent's friends. They'd come around to visit and she'd sleep in the spare bedroom later on while her parents were still up with mine. One warm night she came into my room and asked me to "scratch under there". Her pretext was that it was "itchy" rather than her feeling horny. I was 12 but didn't want to go along with it as I was terrified I might have been found out and then be labeled a "child molester" and suffer all kinds of punitive actions. She was so unbelievably FORCEFUL and wouldn't take no for an answer, so I lead her back to her room and told her to just go to sleep. I'd go back to my own bed and then she'd come in AGAIN. This went on about 4 or 5 times throughout the night. Her pretext that is was "itchy" was obviously BS as she could have easily done it herself. One time she came into my room with her nighty pulled right up and playing with herself right in front of my face. (I was lying down and she was standing right there by my bed side). I told her time again that I "can't" do that, then she'd ask "BUT WHY!!??" She was practically 'sexually harassing' me by this stage with all her persistence. LOL. In the end I was practically arguing with her over it and her voice had become raised with frustration by this time and I could really see it in her face too!. Her parents ended up hearing all the fuss and came up the passage way to see what was going on. They realised that she was hassling me and demanded she get to bed, and then the mother apologized to me for her being a "bother". The girl didn't say a word to them what it was all over, and naturally neither did I. She finally obeyed them and then went back into her own bed without bothering me again. lol."

Self-stimulating infants (for validation in literature, see our research section)

• "At around 12 mos., my granddaughter began stimulating herself by laying on her stomach & stimulating herself by moving her hips in a rhytmic motion. She began only doing it when she is tired & would put herself to sleep this way. Now she does it a lot more often......in her high chair, carseat, etc. Sometimes when she does it now, she nearly screams & seems to get frustrated at times. She will sometimes have a glassy look in her eyes as if she's in deep concentration or a trance-like state. If you try to distract her or pick her up before she's 'ready', she will cry & fight us. We were worried about her being sexually abused, but she's not left alone with strangers."
• "When my 9 year old son was only 2 weeks old, I was laying with him in my bed and had him laying on top of my stomach and chest. All of a sudden, he started thrusting his pelvis back and forth like a man having sex would! I was shocked! He did this for about 10 seconds, and then I turned him over on his back and checked his diaper. His penis was erect! I really freaked out and to this day can't figure out how or why a 2 week old baby would do something like that. I was his only caretaker from the time we left the hospital, and I have NEVER touched any of my children inappropriately. I never saw it happen again when he was a baby, but to this day, he has a tendency to stimulate himself, I think he does it without even realizing it most of the time."

Loving Boys, Volume One by Edward Brongersma:

"A 35-year-old mother told Gauthier, 'When he was only 18 months old my six-year-old son was having erections as soon as he touched me. He would mount me and make the motions of intercourse: I thought this was nice and disarming.'" (p. 62)

Investigator Bob Mosier, describing the Cambodian sex trade:

"You have an 8-year-old or 9-year-old little girl who's looking at you smiling, ok, realizing that you're going to, uh, in just a few moments possibly, probably engage in a sexual act that they're gonna get money for, and they're smiling about it. I mean I see a smile like that on my kids' face when they're find out that they're gonna go to Disney World or something like that."

Theo Sandfort asks 12-year-old Wouter who usually initiates sex in his relationship with a 42-year-old man:

Mostly I do.

You start it?

I decide if we're going to have sex or not.

You decide that?

Yes. And every day I come here it happens. I don't keep Gerard waiting around.

Is that a kind of rule, that it happens every time?

No. I like it. When I feel like it we just start. Then we first take a bath and then go to bed. Sometimes we do that the other way round.

But if you have to say who starts it, on average, who would that be?

Well, sometimes one of us, sometimes the other. Yes, and sometimes he wants it and I don't, so then we don't do it. Mostly I'm the first one to begin.