Debate Guide: Evolutionary logic: Difference between revisions

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The application of Darwin's Theory of Evolution has become popular in both the pursuits of genuine analysts and politically motivated ideologues. Here we attempt a genuine argument that its logic casts doubt upon many of the sacred "truths" of the child abuse movement.
The application of Darwin's [[Theory of Evolution]] has become popular in both the pursuits of genuine analysts and politically motivated ideologues. Here we attempt to argue that its logic casts doubt upon many of the sacred "truths" of the child abuse movement. That [[Research: Prevalence|a large proportion]] of the male population are in fact pedophiles, and even more are attracted to pubescents, is the first pointer towards of the evolutionary strength of attraction to youths.
 
==Hedonics==
 
The idea that sexual experiences (or any adults who participate in them) are necessarily injurious to the young is contested with the concept of ''hedonics''. It is observed in humans and other animals, that beneficial activities (such as eating and sex) bring innate pleasure, especially at times of great need. Harmful behaviours bring about innate pain.  


As [[Jack McClellan]] puts it:
As [[Jack McClellan]] puts it:


:''"I definitely don't accept the view of the dominant culture that loving, noncoercive, consensual sexual touching with potty-trained prepubescent children is abusive and ruins them for life. What ruins them is the subsequent brainwashing by the "sex offender" industry that they've been damaged. The key test that this is nonsense folkways is that children have to be indoctrinated that pleasurable genital/anal touching is "bad touch" -- yet they instinctively and experientially know that touching a flame is bad touch, sticking a syringe in their arm is bad touch, being bit by a dog is bad touch, etc".''
:''"I definitely don't accept the view of the dominant culture that loving, noncoercive, consensual sexual touching with potty-trained prepubescent children is abusive and ruins them for life. What ruins them is the subsequent brainwashing by the "sex offender" industry that they've been damaged. '''The key test that this is nonsense folkways is that children have to be indoctrinated that pleasurable genital/anal touching is "bad touch" -- yet they instinctively and experientially know that touching a flame is bad touch, sticking a syringe in their arm is bad touch, being bit by a dog is bad touch, etc'''".''
 
In addition to this, there is no adaptive reason for parents to enjoy harming their own offspring, barring overpopulation and infanticide. This is because the adult is genetically invested in their offspring. If genital touching were significantly and inherently injurious for youngsters, it would carry an innate burden of pain for both youngsters and closely related adults. In this case, incest could be dismissed as an "aberration". However, this fails to explain its sheer prevalence and why common variations in family environment (absence of one parent) are known for bringing about parental "incest" contacts.
 
==Also consider==
 
It is often suggested that an "uninformed" consenting child only recognizes the magnitude of the event/s years afterwards - notably in young adulthood. This again, rund counter to Darwin's model. Young people would not go on to feel psychological pain and sexual inhibition just as they were acquiring the ability to reproduce, as this would harm their reproductive fitness. In fact, this mechanism would appear to be ''positively maladaptive''.
 
There are also evolutionary reasons for intergenerational intimacy and attractions to pre-pubertal youngsters.
 
'''Pedophilia'''
 
The evolution of man occurred for the most part, before the diversity and interconnectedness of modern societies. In the highly isolated tribal societies that were the landscape for man's evolution, out-competed males would have had virtually no option in terms of reproduction. The only way they could enhance the spread of their genes would be to enhance the fitness (and future reproductive success) of closely related members of the tribal society who were not in competition with him (men) or otherwise inaccessible (women). Young, easy to befriend individuals whose abilities were malleable and yet to be determined. Whilst no one man made the rational decision to do this (understanding of natural selection is a relatively modern innovation), tribes in which out-competed males could direct their love and attention towards young members survived because of the beneficial mentorship, protective and nutritional properties of these relationships. The youngsters therefore achieved high status, successfully reproducing their genes and a good proportion of their relatives' as adults.
 
This is one of the possible mechanisms through which attraction to the prepubescent children of other individuals became an adaptive trait in early human societies. The fact that in modern societies, these interests are sometimes directed towards completely unrelated children is besides the point. Thousands of years of evolution could not have predicted the innovation of modern societies in which acting on such attractions may not confer ''some'' genetic benefit, and may in fact lead to social ostracism and death.


==Hedonics==
That said, the above does not adequately explain why pedophilia often has an erotic component. We may begin to explain this by casting light upon the importance of ''good erotic taste'' in the tribal pedophile male. By selecting children who have budding sexually attractive physical characteristics, and therefore future reproductive fitness, the tribal pedophile male again increases the chance that his genetic commonality with said youngster will survive through the generations. This may help us explain why pedophiles express interest in the most physically attractive children, and why this interest takes something of an erotic form. The following section expands this case.
 
'''Sexual contacts with juveniles'''


The idea that sexual experiences (or the adults who participate in them) should hurt the young can be neatly contested with the concept of hedonics. As makes evolutionary sense, it is often observed in humans and other animals, that activities which bring benefits (such as eating and sex), bring pleasure - especially at times of great need. The same principle works for pains that follow harmful behaviors. Assuming this, why would parents sexually enjoy harming their own offspring, in whom they have a genetic investment? Shouldn't such behavior be not only undesirable, but painful to the adult, as well as the child? It could be said that this incest is an "aberration", but then why is it so often brought on by "normal" variations in family environment, such as the absence of a parent when before there had been no sexual intimacy?
There are many possible reasons why erotic contacts with juveniles and adolescents could confer an advantage in the Darwinian model. For post-menarchal girls, the superior lifespan of children to young mothers[http://longevity-science.org/media/Daily-Mail-2006-Nov.pdf][http://debate-guide.com/aristoff.txt] makes them desirable partners, although when malnourished, small girls may sometimes be more vulnerable to complications during pregnancy.


In addition to this, it is often suggested that an "uninformed" consenting child only recognizes the magnitude of the event/s years afterwards. In this case, why should young people go on to feel psychological pain and sexual inhibition just as they are acquiring the ability to reproduce, thus greatly harming their "biological fitness"? Is there anything in the long story of man's arrival that would suggest such a maladaptive mechanism? As far as Darwin's theory goes, this is extremely bad logic.
As for prepubescents, it is simplistic to state that they are incapable of reproduction, and should therefore be no more sexually attractive than an inanimate object. To begin with, "pedophile" relationships may very soon develop into situations where reproduction is a possibility. This early induction may have been vital in early societies where 30, 40 or 50 was considered old-age.  


On the other hand, there are evolutionary reasons for intergenerational intimacy, e.g. the lifespan of children to young mothers[http://longevity-science.org/media/Daily-Mail-2006-Nov.pdf][http://debate-guide.com/aristoff.txt], sexual induction and bonding before the age of fertility (which considering the shorter lifespan of our ancestors, was also often the age of reproduction or at least advanced courtship). That possibly [[Research: Prevalence|a large proportion]] of the male population are pedophiles, is a good indication of the trait's strengths in the evolutionary history of man. Of course, it should be noted that 'pedophile' relationships may soon develop into situations where new life can be generated. If one thinks of the benefits to a primitive community of maybe 30 human ancestors, it makes sense that around three or four of the adults should have an interest in the emotional development and sexual education of the group's young. It also makes sense that these interests are shared, albeit less preferentially, by most of the community, and that individuals have an attraction towards a range of ages, genders, looks, etc ([[polymorphous perversity]]) as this is beneficial for their restricted reproductive and social interests. Sexual education, intergenerational communication are just some highly important parts of tribal life and survival, and thus - a sexually diverse population of [[pansexual]]s is favorable.
Considering the possible benefits to a primitive community of maybe 30 human ancestors, it makes sense that a small number of the adults should have an interest in the emotional development and sexual education of the group's young. "Hands on" sexual education (note the lack of innate damage eluded to earlier) and intergenerational communication are likely to have been important parts of tribal life and survival (see [[Research: Nonwestern Intergenerational Relationships]] for some examples). And if these attractions towards a range of ages, genders, looks, etcetera ([[polymorphous perversity]]) are shared by most of the community - albeit not as explicit preferences, this may enhance the possibility of successful reproduction in communities where a wide spread of physical types may not be available. A diverse set of sexual attractions, not only in relation to age, is therefore favourable in the Darwinian model.


==Developmental consideration==
==Developmental consideration==


Throughout our childhood and adolescence, various windows for development open and are accompanied by urges and explorations that are relevant to learning in the areas concerned. It is natural to explore these urges, as they are biological traits geared towards the purpose of personal growth and experience. Maybe in light of this and children's untamed sexual curiosity, we should reject today's prevalent questioning of 'the effects of sex on youth', instead choosing to investigate 'the effects of no sex on youth'. This revised focus has far more relevance to the physical and mental health of human beings before social conditioning and in pre-western cultures. "Thinking outside of the box" applies.
Throughout our childhood and adolescence, various windows for development open and are accompanied by urges and explorations that are relevant to learning in the areas concerned. It is natural to explore these urges, as they are biological traits geared towards the purpose of personal growth and experience. Maybe in light of this and children's untamed sexual curiosity, we should reject today's prevalent questioning of "the effects of sex on youth", instead choosing to investigate "the effects of suppressing sex on youth". This revised focus has far more relevance to the physical and mental health of human beings before social conditioning and in pre-western cultures. "Thinking outside of the box" applies.


[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Child/Minor]]
[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Child/Minor]]

Revision as of 04:16, 4 February 2009

The application of Darwin's Theory of Evolution has become popular in both the pursuits of genuine analysts and politically motivated ideologues. Here we attempt to argue that its logic casts doubt upon many of the sacred "truths" of the child abuse movement. That a large proportion of the male population are in fact pedophiles, and even more are attracted to pubescents, is the first pointer towards of the evolutionary strength of attraction to youths.

Hedonics

The idea that sexual experiences (or any adults who participate in them) are necessarily injurious to the young is contested with the concept of hedonics. It is observed in humans and other animals, that beneficial activities (such as eating and sex) bring innate pleasure, especially at times of great need. Harmful behaviours bring about innate pain.

As Jack McClellan puts it:

"I definitely don't accept the view of the dominant culture that loving, noncoercive, consensual sexual touching with potty-trained prepubescent children is abusive and ruins them for life. What ruins them is the subsequent brainwashing by the "sex offender" industry that they've been damaged. The key test that this is nonsense folkways is that children have to be indoctrinated that pleasurable genital/anal touching is "bad touch" -- yet they instinctively and experientially know that touching a flame is bad touch, sticking a syringe in their arm is bad touch, being bit by a dog is bad touch, etc".

In addition to this, there is no adaptive reason for parents to enjoy harming their own offspring, barring overpopulation and infanticide. This is because the adult is genetically invested in their offspring. If genital touching were significantly and inherently injurious for youngsters, it would carry an innate burden of pain for both youngsters and closely related adults. In this case, incest could be dismissed as an "aberration". However, this fails to explain its sheer prevalence and why common variations in family environment (absence of one parent) are known for bringing about parental "incest" contacts.

Also consider

It is often suggested that an "uninformed" consenting child only recognizes the magnitude of the event/s years afterwards - notably in young adulthood. This again, rund counter to Darwin's model. Young people would not go on to feel psychological pain and sexual inhibition just as they were acquiring the ability to reproduce, as this would harm their reproductive fitness. In fact, this mechanism would appear to be positively maladaptive.

There are also evolutionary reasons for intergenerational intimacy and attractions to pre-pubertal youngsters.

Pedophilia

The evolution of man occurred for the most part, before the diversity and interconnectedness of modern societies. In the highly isolated tribal societies that were the landscape for man's evolution, out-competed males would have had virtually no option in terms of reproduction. The only way they could enhance the spread of their genes would be to enhance the fitness (and future reproductive success) of closely related members of the tribal society who were not in competition with him (men) or otherwise inaccessible (women). Young, easy to befriend individuals whose abilities were malleable and yet to be determined. Whilst no one man made the rational decision to do this (understanding of natural selection is a relatively modern innovation), tribes in which out-competed males could direct their love and attention towards young members survived because of the beneficial mentorship, protective and nutritional properties of these relationships. The youngsters therefore achieved high status, successfully reproducing their genes and a good proportion of their relatives' as adults.

This is one of the possible mechanisms through which attraction to the prepubescent children of other individuals became an adaptive trait in early human societies. The fact that in modern societies, these interests are sometimes directed towards completely unrelated children is besides the point. Thousands of years of evolution could not have predicted the innovation of modern societies in which acting on such attractions may not confer some genetic benefit, and may in fact lead to social ostracism and death.

That said, the above does not adequately explain why pedophilia often has an erotic component. We may begin to explain this by casting light upon the importance of good erotic taste in the tribal pedophile male. By selecting children who have budding sexually attractive physical characteristics, and therefore future reproductive fitness, the tribal pedophile male again increases the chance that his genetic commonality with said youngster will survive through the generations. This may help us explain why pedophiles express interest in the most physically attractive children, and why this interest takes something of an erotic form. The following section expands this case.

Sexual contacts with juveniles

There are many possible reasons why erotic contacts with juveniles and adolescents could confer an advantage in the Darwinian model. For post-menarchal girls, the superior lifespan of children to young mothers[1][2] makes them desirable partners, although when malnourished, small girls may sometimes be more vulnerable to complications during pregnancy.

As for prepubescents, it is simplistic to state that they are incapable of reproduction, and should therefore be no more sexually attractive than an inanimate object. To begin with, "pedophile" relationships may very soon develop into situations where reproduction is a possibility. This early induction may have been vital in early societies where 30, 40 or 50 was considered old-age.

Considering the possible benefits to a primitive community of maybe 30 human ancestors, it makes sense that a small number of the adults should have an interest in the emotional development and sexual education of the group's young. "Hands on" sexual education (note the lack of innate damage eluded to earlier) and intergenerational communication are likely to have been important parts of tribal life and survival (see Research: Nonwestern Intergenerational Relationships for some examples). And if these attractions towards a range of ages, genders, looks, etcetera (polymorphous perversity) are shared by most of the community - albeit not as explicit preferences, this may enhance the possibility of successful reproduction in communities where a wide spread of physical types may not be available. A diverse set of sexual attractions, not only in relation to age, is therefore favourable in the Darwinian model.

Developmental consideration

Throughout our childhood and adolescence, various windows for development open and are accompanied by urges and explorations that are relevant to learning in the areas concerned. It is natural to explore these urges, as they are biological traits geared towards the purpose of personal growth and experience. Maybe in light of this and children's untamed sexual curiosity, we should reject today's prevalent questioning of "the effects of sex on youth", instead choosing to investigate "the effects of suppressing sex on youth". This revised focus has far more relevance to the physical and mental health of human beings before social conditioning and in pre-western cultures. "Thinking outside of the box" applies.