23 Sep, 2024: Our collection of material documenting harassment, doxing and allegations of illegal behavior against MAPs, on the part of a purportedly "MAP" group, is now complete. A second article documenting a campaign of disinformation by said group is nearing completion, and will be shared here.

Debate Guide: Misdefinitions and Rhetorical Manipulation: Difference between revisions

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Pointing out the general problem of misdefinition, and sticking to a set of precise, objective words of your own is fundamental to your argument. Via the use of misdefinitions, opponents have been able to get away with indefensible arguments - yet the majority probably know little about their faulty use of language. As far as labelling is concerned, remember to make the point that there is no such thing as 'the paedophile/pederast', any more than there is such a thing as 'the heterophile' or 'the homophile'. Minor-attracted individuals have no essential characteristics that distinguish them, save that their sexual tendency is strongly directed towards young people. Just as heterosexuals have no other distinguishing characteristics. What we are debating is the activities of an individual, adult or child, not a de-personalised category. Make sure to point out the following examples:
<div style="margin-left: 25px; float: right;">__TOC__</div>To promote a consistent and amicable debate, you must be on the same page as your opponent with language. Opponents will misdefine common phrases in order to get away with indefensible arguments. As far as labelling is concerned, remember to make the point there is no such thing as 'the pedophile', no more so than 'the heterophile/homophile'. [[Minor Attracted Person|Minor attracted people]] have no essential characteristics that distinguish them, save their attractions are strongly directed towards younger people. Therefore, MAPs should not be the exclusive targets of depersonalization. Point out the following examples:


==Pedophilia==
==Pedophilia==


This is not 'child sexual abuse', 'illegal', 'child - adult sex', 'child porn', a 'mental illness' or the 'problem' associated with these. Pedophilia is a sexual attraction towards prepubescents. Check a reputable dictionary definition, e.g. 'sexual desire directed towards children' (Oxford, 1991). Abuse of a child does not automatically qualify you as a Pedophile either, as Pedophilia - by definition has nothing primarily to do with behaviour (see "All child molesters are pedophiles"). Such a misdefinition may show a writer's vulnerability to the media, e.g. note how many news programmes simply use 'Pedophile' in place of 'child molester', whilst 'Heterosexual' would not be used to describe that bearded, warty rapist of a 25 year old woman!
[[File:Peddef.png|thumb|Simple response to misdefinition]]
'''Pedophilia is commonly, and often simultaneously, misdefined as:'''  
*"[[Child Sexual Abuse]]" or "a crime"
*"[[Minor-adult sex]]"
*"Attraction to minors" or "attraction to a considerably younger person"
*"Pornographic material featuring minors", or "Child Pedophilia" (a common malapropism)
*...even as a "social issue/problem/topic"


The term 'Pedosexuality' may be preferred by some, if the opponent fails to accept the actual definition of Pedophilia. On the other hand, 'Nonce', 'Kiddy Fiddler' and 'Duck' have been used alongside the 'Large, groping hands', 'Thick rimmed / dirty glasses' and 'Sly old fox' stereotypes, of which the latter replaced the 'Rampant child destroyer' image, once news stories and studies revealed an alternative but equally disturbing nature to society's current 'devil' of choice.
'''[[Pedophilia]] is a sexual attraction towards prepubescent children.'''  


==Pederast==
Dictionaries provide basic definitions, e.g. 'sexual desire directed towards children' (Oxford, 1991), and sometimes specify the colloquial uses. Sexual contact with a child or minor should not automatically qualify a person as a Pedophile. Not only does the etymology of Pedophilia not relate to such behavior, but most of these crimes are [[Research: Offender characteristics|conducted by non-pedophiles]]. Diagnostic criteria clearly state that a ''pedophilic'' attraction must be present, and various experts and child-protection agencies also point this out.<ref>[https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/news/why-language-matters/paedophile-problematic-caution NSPCC: Use "Paedophile" cautiously]</ref><ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20170630142857/https://medium.com/pedophiles-about-pedophilia/the-stigmatization-of-pedophilia-71e956dfed02 Enderphile blog post including the BBC's response to misdefinition of pedophile]</ref>


This is the real word for a man who interacts 'sexually' with adolescent / pubescent boys. It derives from "boy love" the combination of “παίδ-” (the Greek stem for boy or child) with “ἐραστής” (Greek for lover; cf. “eros”). It has been manipulated in modern times, so that it refers to the anal penetration of under age boys, homosexuality, or any form of child rape.
===Hebephilia and Ephebophilia===


Even [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty Wikipedia] (at the time of writing - Jun 08) has a decent article on the subject.
You can introduce these [[chronophilia]]s alongside a critique of your opponent's definitions. [[Hebephilia]] is defined as a sexual attraction towards pubescents. [[Ephebophilia]] is more controversial, since the target (post pubescent youth, sometimes defined as late teens) is sexually mature, making the attraction a so-called [[Chronophilia|"normophilia"]].


==[[Ephebophilia]]==
===[[Minor Attracted Person]]===


Although rarely used and not often misdefined, you may wish to introduce this word alongside a critique of your opponent's definitions. Ephebophilia is defined as a sexual attraction towards adolescents; particularly pubescents of either or both sexes (although Hebephilia may be used for an attraction to Girls). An 'Ephebe' is traditionally a young, male military recruit. An 'Adolescent' may be of any pubertal age, or up to around 21 years old, depending on your definition. 'Sexually active Ephebophile' is a better term than 'Pedophile' for describing someone who has chosen, through sexual preference, to have erotic relationships with pubescents, and the distinction is important since it clarifies that some degree of pubescent sexual character is preferred.
Often characterized as "[[Wikipedia:Newspeak|Newspeak]]", or "Orwellian" "loaded language", the use of this criticism is an inversion of reality that exposes whoever uses it as a cultist. [[Wikipedia:Loaded language|Language loading]] means entrenching ideology within vocabulary so that people can't speak or think outside of it. Anti "[[Grooming|groomer]]" cultists, conspiracy theorists and victimological/"radical" [[Feminism|feminists]] use it to mean ''not'' entrenching ideology, since their [[List of obfuscatory terms used by authorities|own lexicon]] is itself heavily loaded.


==Abuse, Molestation==
===Pederasty===


These are often used to describe child - adult sex, and are correct from a legal point of view. Although they are misdefinitions, you must be able to back this up, before making such an assertion.
This is a [[Pederasty|word for ''practiced'' erotic love between a man and adolescent/pubescent boys]]. It derives from "boy love" the combination of “παίδ-” (the Greek stem for boy or child) with “ἐραστής” (Greek for lover; cf. “eros”). It has been manipulated in variable ways during modern times, referring to the anal penetration of underage boys, homosexuality, or any form of child rape.


One notable problem is when someone may quote a [[Research|study]] that concluded strongly against 'child sexual abuse' and then say 'I told you so'. The behaviours that are included in such a study are very likely to be unrepresentative of all such contact. If this is not the case search for bias, social causation of problems, any cases of 'correlation as causality' (e.g. 'something else causing sex and violence', or 'violence causing sex', instead of the assumed 'sex causing violence') and any evidence to the contrary from our link list or list of studies. [http://www.mhamic.org/problems/problemsintro.htm Richard Kramer] provides a good starting point for critiquing these problem papers. Still, you must point out precisely how the evidence conflicts with theirs, instead of just linking it.
==Abuse, molestation==


==Fucking Children==
These terms may be adopted by your opponent, but should be challenged, and not adopted as parameters of debate. Use more neutral terms yourself, such as "minor", "teen", "age-discrepancy", "sexual"/"genital contact", "intimacy".


As well as seemingly assuming penetration, such a definition of what you advocate sounds harsh, one sided and at the worst, intrinsically involuntary. A reasoned debate can only be had if the very definitions that we use are objective, and preferably shared by all sides of a debate. You advocate child - adult sexual contact, and must never be implied as supporting such a vague, emotionally laden and flexible idea as 'Fucking Children'. Nor should you use 'pleasuring' or 'making love' in anything but a descriptive sense - e.g, a correct usage would be -
The most likely reason you will not be able to force your opponent to adopt trauma-neutral language, is they will quote [[Research|studies]] concluding that "[[child sexual abuse]]" is uniquely and intensively harmful. These false-diagnostics are based upon [[Research: Methodological flaws and syndrome construction|methodological and sampling flaws]] that are as common as they are predictable. Thankfully, methodology has been improving over the last couple of decades, with many of the confounding variables being weeded out. Still, you must point out precisely how [[Research: Prevalence of Harm and Negative Outcomes|the evidence]] conflicts with theirs, instead of just linking it.


"You would be surprised how many sexually active Pedophiles are simply pleasuring their partners. Whats more, their partners agree with a smile". [[Accounts and Testimonies|Link to an account]]
===Fucking===


The well-known author and feminist, Patrick Califa, has noted that if engaging in sexual relations with their partners, boylovers generally show more concern for the pleasure of their partners than does the average heterophile. Naturally such concern occurs to a greater or lesser extent in most relationships, but it seems that this aspect is particularly important in man/boy contacts – whether it occurs in a long-term relationship or even a casual sexual encounter: accounts almost uniformly show that what the adult appreciates most is the pleasure experienced by the child, even to the exclusion of the man's own contemporaneous sexual release.
This is an objectifying term that presents sexual intimacy as something that is done by an older partner unto a younger one. It assumes penetration, the ''direction'' of penetration, and thus has coercive overtones. A reasoned debate can only be had if the very definitions that we use are objective, and preferably shared by all sides of a debate. The well-known author and feminist, [[Patrick Califia]], has noted that if engaging in sexual relations with their partners, [[boylove]]rs generally show more concern for the pleasure of their partners than does the average heterophile.
 
===Rape===
 
Opponents will often attempt to use the term "rape" in an arbitrary/statutory manner, defining lack of "informed [[consent]]" as the only necessary feature. This is problematic, since [[consent]] is itself an arbitrary concept. By defining rape arbitrarily, we undermine the gravity of traumatic experiences, while attempting to reinterpret positive lived experiences as abuse. This is unhelpful, and counter to [[Research|evidence collected in relation to the experiences of children and minors]].


=='Normal' / 'Normality'==
=='Normal' / 'Normality'==


If your opponent uses this term, be sure to point out that it is an entirely relative concept. You should suggest that 'normal' only means "relatively commoner". So lets list all of the wonderful things that were once deemed "normal" in their contexts. Suppression of Women? Slavery? Rule by violence? Castration of sexual deviants?
If your opponent uses this term, be sure to point out that it is an entirely relative concept. You should suggest that 'normal' only means "relatively common". Female inferiority? Slavery? White supremacy? Castration of sexual deviants? All of these were considered normal.
 
==Other manipulations==
 
:''We consider abuse of '''grammar and phraseology''' a separate topic. See [[Debate Guide: Abuse of language]].''
 
The use of persuasive effect in language is an important part of debate. When possible, the use of superficial rhetoric, especially that which builds upon misdefinitions should be identified and dismissed.
 
==="Sexual relationships" as an example===
 
An opponent may deliberately or unknowingly profit from rhetorical effect by holding adult-minor sexual interactions to a "sexual relationship" standard. By using the language "sexual relationship", your opponent is mentally superimposing traditional adult relationship models upon the hypothetical age-disparate relation in question. The Western "adult" relationship norm is constructed to satisfy the needs and rights of modern, western "adults", mainly heterosexuals, and not younger people and their partners. See, for example how homosexuals, following their own liberation, have been fast to adopt more open and casual relationship models via the internet and GPS dating apps. These permit and encourage casual connections based on raw attraction, absent traditional factors such as romance and commitment.
 
Another assumption embedded in this langage, is the idea that a relationship involving sexual intimacy is ''necessarily and primarily'' a "sexual relationship". Other factors are neglected, since our preconception of a "pedophile" relationship is heavily biased; indeed, the sex is under an undue level of scrutiny. MAPs frequently complain of how their personal experiences are being sexualized by wider society.
 
[[Accounts and Testimonies|Accounts]] and [[research]] might help us understand how these relations may eventually develop under a youth emancipation model.
 
==Addressing non-constructive/low-quality opponents==
 
Some members of bulletin boards are fond of shouting from the sidelines while making absolutely no constructive points at all.
 
Never forget - there are lurking members and at least twice as many non - members viewing the discussions on a bulletin board. So hyperbolic rebuttals and expressed disgust (lest they happen) are by no means the end of a debate. In fact, when others overshoot - it may only serve to give power to your side of the debate.
 
Linking an opponent's disruptive behavior with their beliefs may work if it is done carefully, but indifference or a humorous reply is more likely to undermine their efforts. If the board has a good moderation policy, it may be worthwhile reporting threatening or accusative content to moderators, although such "lawyering" often undermines your credibility, and risks validating flippant, insulting remarks. Remind yourself that with the rule of reason on your side, you should never be effectively countered with jibes, which are themselves easily dismissed.
 
==="Concise Lede" approach===
 
If you feel that a "point by point" response to an over-reacting, emotional, repetitive, fallacious/low-quality opponent has effectively obscured your core contentions, it may be worthwhile to summarize your objection at the start of a post. Considering that your contributions may be "[[wikipedia:Too_long;_didn't_read|TL;DR]]" for most readers, it is important to emphasize your main contention at the beginning of each large post, explaining why it has not changed in light of new argument. It is also advisable to relate back to your main contention/s, if you are addressing bulky, tangential arguments that may serve to distract.


The use of "normal" automatically implies that the chosen opposite is "sub/ab-normal", and its use must be shot down as inconsequential - ''immediately''.
==References==


[[Category:Debate]][[Category: Debate Advice & Technique]]
[[Category:Debate]][[Category: Debate Advice & Technique]]
[[fr:Guide de débat: Répondre aux fautes de définitions]]

Latest revision as of 01:44, 9 November 2024

To promote a consistent and amicable debate, you must be on the same page as your opponent with language. Opponents will misdefine common phrases in order to get away with indefensible arguments. As far as labelling is concerned, remember to make the point there is no such thing as 'the pedophile', no more so than 'the heterophile/homophile'. Minor attracted people have no essential characteristics that distinguish them, save their attractions are strongly directed towards younger people. Therefore, MAPs should not be the exclusive targets of depersonalization. Point out the following examples:

Pedophilia

Simple response to misdefinition

Pedophilia is commonly, and often simultaneously, misdefined as:

  • "Child Sexual Abuse" or "a crime"
  • "Minor-adult sex"
  • "Attraction to minors" or "attraction to a considerably younger person"
  • "Pornographic material featuring minors", or "Child Pedophilia" (a common malapropism)
  • ...even as a "social issue/problem/topic"

Pedophilia is a sexual attraction towards prepubescent children.

Dictionaries provide basic definitions, e.g. 'sexual desire directed towards children' (Oxford, 1991), and sometimes specify the colloquial uses. Sexual contact with a child or minor should not automatically qualify a person as a Pedophile. Not only does the etymology of Pedophilia not relate to such behavior, but most of these crimes are conducted by non-pedophiles. Diagnostic criteria clearly state that a pedophilic attraction must be present, and various experts and child-protection agencies also point this out.[1][2]

Hebephilia and Ephebophilia

You can introduce these chronophilias alongside a critique of your opponent's definitions. Hebephilia is defined as a sexual attraction towards pubescents. Ephebophilia is more controversial, since the target (post pubescent youth, sometimes defined as late teens) is sexually mature, making the attraction a so-called "normophilia".

Minor Attracted Person

Often characterized as "Newspeak", or "Orwellian" "loaded language", the use of this criticism is an inversion of reality that exposes whoever uses it as a cultist. Language loading means entrenching ideology within vocabulary so that people can't speak or think outside of it. Anti "groomer" cultists, conspiracy theorists and victimological/"radical" feminists use it to mean not entrenching ideology, since their own lexicon is itself heavily loaded.

Pederasty

This is a word for practiced erotic love between a man and adolescent/pubescent boys. It derives from "boy love" the combination of “παίδ-” (the Greek stem for boy or child) with “ἐραστής” (Greek for lover; cf. “eros”). It has been manipulated in variable ways during modern times, referring to the anal penetration of underage boys, homosexuality, or any form of child rape.

Abuse, molestation

These terms may be adopted by your opponent, but should be challenged, and not adopted as parameters of debate. Use more neutral terms yourself, such as "minor", "teen", "age-discrepancy", "sexual"/"genital contact", "intimacy".

The most likely reason you will not be able to force your opponent to adopt trauma-neutral language, is they will quote studies concluding that "child sexual abuse" is uniquely and intensively harmful. These false-diagnostics are based upon methodological and sampling flaws that are as common as they are predictable. Thankfully, methodology has been improving over the last couple of decades, with many of the confounding variables being weeded out. Still, you must point out precisely how the evidence conflicts with theirs, instead of just linking it.

Fucking

This is an objectifying term that presents sexual intimacy as something that is done by an older partner unto a younger one. It assumes penetration, the direction of penetration, and thus has coercive overtones. A reasoned debate can only be had if the very definitions that we use are objective, and preferably shared by all sides of a debate. The well-known author and feminist, Patrick Califia, has noted that if engaging in sexual relations with their partners, boylovers generally show more concern for the pleasure of their partners than does the average heterophile.

Rape

Opponents will often attempt to use the term "rape" in an arbitrary/statutory manner, defining lack of "informed consent" as the only necessary feature. This is problematic, since consent is itself an arbitrary concept. By defining rape arbitrarily, we undermine the gravity of traumatic experiences, while attempting to reinterpret positive lived experiences as abuse. This is unhelpful, and counter to evidence collected in relation to the experiences of children and minors.

'Normal' / 'Normality'

If your opponent uses this term, be sure to point out that it is an entirely relative concept. You should suggest that 'normal' only means "relatively common". Female inferiority? Slavery? White supremacy? Castration of sexual deviants? All of these were considered normal.

Other manipulations

We consider abuse of grammar and phraseology a separate topic. See Debate Guide: Abuse of language.

The use of persuasive effect in language is an important part of debate. When possible, the use of superficial rhetoric, especially that which builds upon misdefinitions should be identified and dismissed.

"Sexual relationships" as an example

An opponent may deliberately or unknowingly profit from rhetorical effect by holding adult-minor sexual interactions to a "sexual relationship" standard. By using the language "sexual relationship", your opponent is mentally superimposing traditional adult relationship models upon the hypothetical age-disparate relation in question. The Western "adult" relationship norm is constructed to satisfy the needs and rights of modern, western "adults", mainly heterosexuals, and not younger people and their partners. See, for example how homosexuals, following their own liberation, have been fast to adopt more open and casual relationship models via the internet and GPS dating apps. These permit and encourage casual connections based on raw attraction, absent traditional factors such as romance and commitment.

Another assumption embedded in this langage, is the idea that a relationship involving sexual intimacy is necessarily and primarily a "sexual relationship". Other factors are neglected, since our preconception of a "pedophile" relationship is heavily biased; indeed, the sex is under an undue level of scrutiny. MAPs frequently complain of how their personal experiences are being sexualized by wider society.

Accounts and research might help us understand how these relations may eventually develop under a youth emancipation model.

Addressing non-constructive/low-quality opponents

Some members of bulletin boards are fond of shouting from the sidelines while making absolutely no constructive points at all.

Never forget - there are lurking members and at least twice as many non - members viewing the discussions on a bulletin board. So hyperbolic rebuttals and expressed disgust (lest they happen) are by no means the end of a debate. In fact, when others overshoot - it may only serve to give power to your side of the debate.

Linking an opponent's disruptive behavior with their beliefs may work if it is done carefully, but indifference or a humorous reply is more likely to undermine their efforts. If the board has a good moderation policy, it may be worthwhile reporting threatening or accusative content to moderators, although such "lawyering" often undermines your credibility, and risks validating flippant, insulting remarks. Remind yourself that with the rule of reason on your side, you should never be effectively countered with jibes, which are themselves easily dismissed.

"Concise Lede" approach

If you feel that a "point by point" response to an over-reacting, emotional, repetitive, fallacious/low-quality opponent has effectively obscured your core contentions, it may be worthwhile to summarize your objection at the start of a post. Considering that your contributions may be "TL;DR" for most readers, it is important to emphasize your main contention at the beginning of each large post, explaining why it has not changed in light of new argument. It is also advisable to relate back to your main contention/s, if you are addressing bulky, tangential arguments that may serve to distract.

References