Debate Guide: Doomed from the beginning: Difference between revisions
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<blockquote><font color="green">'''''As soon as the young person grows beyond their partner's [[Age of attraction|age of attraction]], the relationship will break down.'''''</font></blockquote> | <blockquote><font color="green">'''''As soon as the young person grows beyond their partner's [[Age of attraction|age of attraction]], the relationship will break down.'''''</font></blockquote> | ||
Even if this were correct, | Even if this were correct, compliance with a romantic norm is not a justification for arbitrarily condemning or denying any "sexual" relations within a certain (as yet undefined) age range. There has been a trend in society towards casual connections, and this argument completely ignores that. | ||
Lack of interest in aging minds and bodies is also nothing new. If every relationship which eventually broke down were a terrible injustice and abomination, we would be judging and intervening in a lot of adult-adult relationships. This includes relationships between older and younger adults, where rather unsurprisingly, it tends to be the younger partner who ends the relationship.<ref>[https://psychcentral.com/blog/a-therapist-reveals-the-surprising-truth-about-older-men-marring-younger-women#3 Psych Central - Older Man Younger Woman Relationships]</ref> | |||
On the topic of adult-adult relationships, research by Justin Lehmiller and Christopher Agnew in 2011 has revealed that age gap relationships in which the husband was older, were related to better life satisfaction for both partners. Their research also suggests such partners tend to be more trusting, less jealous, and less selfish compared to persons similar in age to their partners.<ref>[https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1024&context=psychpubs May-December Paradoxes: An Exploration of Age-Gap Relationships in Western Society. Lehmiller and Agnew (2011).]</ref> | |||
==The basis of the argument is flawed, regardless== | ==The basis of the argument is flawed, regardless== | ||
Regardless of the ethical questions, the idea of a fundamental, fatal flaw rooted in the "time-sensitive" nature of [[chronophilia]] is a non-starter for a number of reasons. Not only can those who prefer adults fall in love with minors, but actual [[Minor Attracted Person|MAPs]] have a ''range'' of attractions. For a starter, MAPs are more typically [[Research: Pedophilia as a sexual/erotic orientation|nonexclusive]] than [[Teleiophilia|teleiophiles]],<ref>[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-010-9675-3 Blanchard, R., Kuban, M.E., Blak, T. et al. Sexual Attraction to Others: A Comparison of Two Models of Alloerotic Responding in Men. Arch Sex Behav 41, 13–29 (2012).]</ref> experiencing secondary attractions that often span upwards into adulthood. So in fact, the older partner's affinity for the minor may grow or at least persist, if their attraction to younger people is not exclusive. And since most people are teleiophilic and most pedophiles are non-exclusive, this kind of relationship would likely be | Regardless of the ethical questions, the idea of a fundamental, fatal flaw rooted in the "time-sensitive" nature of [[chronophilia]] is a non-starter for a number of reasons. Not only can those who prefer adults fall in love with minors, but actual [[Minor Attracted Person|MAPs]] have a ''range'' of attractions. For a starter, MAPs are more typically [[Research: Pedophilia as a sexual/erotic orientation|nonexclusive]] than [[Teleiophilia|teleiophiles]],<ref>[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-010-9675-3 Blanchard, R., Kuban, M.E., Blak, T. et al. Sexual Attraction to Others: A Comparison of Two Models of Alloerotic Responding in Men. Arch Sex Behav 41, 13–29 (2012).]</ref> experiencing secondary attractions that often span upwards into adulthood. So in fact, the older partner's affinity for the minor may grow or at least persist, if their attraction to younger people is not exclusive. And since most people with some form of pedophilia are preferentially [[Teleiophilia|teleiophilic]] and most preferential pedophiles are non-exclusive, this kind of evolving long-term relationship would likely be common. | ||
There is also the possibility that in the absence of mutual sexual attraction, a relationship may continue along existing lines of pedagogy/tuition, platonic love, or any other form of care, mentorship, friendship or support. In the case of British writer [[Norman Douglas]], his former young male sexual partners viewed him positively and maintained friendships for the rest of their lives. Former 12-year-old sex worker Eric Wolton [[Testimony:_Adult_Male_with_Minor_Male|wrote]] "They were happy times [...] I have no evil thoughts about them [...] I do really love you." | |||
Emilio Papa, an Italian boy who had sexual experiences with Douglas at around 12-years-old, was taken in and supported by Douglas after his parents died in 1927, "at which time his sexual attentions had moved on." Emilio was eternally grateful and became a loyal friend, visiting Douglas for his 79th birthday. One Christmas in 1937, he wrote to Douglas about the "wonderful days" they spent together, pouring over old photographs and diaries. In 1939, he wrote to Douglas "as happens often to me, I dreamt of being in your company. Believe me, I felt happy." When Emilio Papa died tragically from burns after surviving a plane crash, "Douglas was devastated" and wrote about it to his son three separate times, "seemingly incapable of processing the tragedy." "There will never be anybody who can replace him," Douglas wrote, "we shall never find another Emilio." | |||
Douglas supported his wife and daughter by allowing them to live in a Florence apartment rent-free, and when Douglas himself died in 1952, Elena and Nella Papa, Emilio's widow and daughter, joined the procession at Douglas’s funeral...<ref>Information taken from the [https://wapercyfoundation.org/?page_id=1056 ''Percy Foundation'' Review of ''Unspeakable:A Life Beyond Sexual Morality'' (2020)].</ref> | |||
Even if long-term relationships are not possible for a variety of potential reasons, "break-ups" are sometimes constructive life decisions. Break-ups can be positive expressions of agency and an internal locus of control, bolstering individuals with the skills and confidence to pursue renewed goals in life. | |||
==External links== | |||
*[https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1024&context=psychpubsDesigning Love Across Ages: The Conscious Craft of Age-Gap Relationships] - Julie Harris. | |||
==References== | ==References== | ||
[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Minor-Attracted]][[Category:Debating Points: Adults]][[Category:Debating Points: Child/Minor]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]] | [[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Minor-Attracted]][[Category:Debating Points: Adults]][[Category:Debating Points: Child/Minor]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]] | ||
Latest revision as of 12:26, 31 July 2024
As soon as the young person grows beyond their partner's age of attraction, the relationship will break down.
Even if this were correct, compliance with a romantic norm is not a justification for arbitrarily condemning or denying any "sexual" relations within a certain (as yet undefined) age range. There has been a trend in society towards casual connections, and this argument completely ignores that.
Lack of interest in aging minds and bodies is also nothing new. If every relationship which eventually broke down were a terrible injustice and abomination, we would be judging and intervening in a lot of adult-adult relationships. This includes relationships between older and younger adults, where rather unsurprisingly, it tends to be the younger partner who ends the relationship.[1]
On the topic of adult-adult relationships, research by Justin Lehmiller and Christopher Agnew in 2011 has revealed that age gap relationships in which the husband was older, were related to better life satisfaction for both partners. Their research also suggests such partners tend to be more trusting, less jealous, and less selfish compared to persons similar in age to their partners.[2]
The basis of the argument is flawed, regardless
Regardless of the ethical questions, the idea of a fundamental, fatal flaw rooted in the "time-sensitive" nature of chronophilia is a non-starter for a number of reasons. Not only can those who prefer adults fall in love with minors, but actual MAPs have a range of attractions. For a starter, MAPs are more typically nonexclusive than teleiophiles,[3] experiencing secondary attractions that often span upwards into adulthood. So in fact, the older partner's affinity for the minor may grow or at least persist, if their attraction to younger people is not exclusive. And since most people with some form of pedophilia are preferentially teleiophilic and most preferential pedophiles are non-exclusive, this kind of evolving long-term relationship would likely be common.
There is also the possibility that in the absence of mutual sexual attraction, a relationship may continue along existing lines of pedagogy/tuition, platonic love, or any other form of care, mentorship, friendship or support. In the case of British writer Norman Douglas, his former young male sexual partners viewed him positively and maintained friendships for the rest of their lives. Former 12-year-old sex worker Eric Wolton wrote "They were happy times [...] I have no evil thoughts about them [...] I do really love you."
Emilio Papa, an Italian boy who had sexual experiences with Douglas at around 12-years-old, was taken in and supported by Douglas after his parents died in 1927, "at which time his sexual attentions had moved on." Emilio was eternally grateful and became a loyal friend, visiting Douglas for his 79th birthday. One Christmas in 1937, he wrote to Douglas about the "wonderful days" they spent together, pouring over old photographs and diaries. In 1939, he wrote to Douglas "as happens often to me, I dreamt of being in your company. Believe me, I felt happy." When Emilio Papa died tragically from burns after surviving a plane crash, "Douglas was devastated" and wrote about it to his son three separate times, "seemingly incapable of processing the tragedy." "There will never be anybody who can replace him," Douglas wrote, "we shall never find another Emilio."
Douglas supported his wife and daughter by allowing them to live in a Florence apartment rent-free, and when Douglas himself died in 1952, Elena and Nella Papa, Emilio's widow and daughter, joined the procession at Douglas’s funeral...[4]
Even if long-term relationships are not possible for a variety of potential reasons, "break-ups" are sometimes constructive life decisions. Break-ups can be positive expressions of agency and an internal locus of control, bolstering individuals with the skills and confidence to pursue renewed goals in life.
External links
- Love Across Ages: The Conscious Craft of Age-Gap Relationships - Julie Harris.
References
- ↑ Psych Central - Older Man Younger Woman Relationships
- ↑ May-December Paradoxes: An Exploration of Age-Gap Relationships in Western Society. Lehmiller and Agnew (2011).
- ↑ Blanchard, R., Kuban, M.E., Blak, T. et al. Sexual Attraction to Others: A Comparison of Two Models of Alloerotic Responding in Men. Arch Sex Behav 41, 13–29 (2012).
- ↑ Information taken from the Percy Foundation Review of Unspeakable:A Life Beyond Sexual Morality (2020).