Debate Guide: Self-loathing hatred: Difference between revisions

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__NOTOC__:''In Freudian terms, the defense mechanism of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_formation Reaction Formation].''
__NOTOC__:''In Freudian terms, the defense mechanism of [[Wikipedia:Reaction formation|Reaction Formation]].''


[[Image:Naziposter.jpg|thumb|Early manifestations of the German far-right asserted an insistently masculine homosexual/pederastic identity, highly disdainful towards effeminate homosexuals]]Projection, guilt, exteriorisation and self-loathing are all important parts of the violently anti-pedophile psyche.
[[Image:Naziposter.jpg|thumb|Early manifestations of the German far-right sometimes asserted an insistently masculine bisexual/pederastic identity, highly disdainful towards effeminate homosexuals and women, something seen as supportive of nation building. This was exemplified by figures such as [[Hans Bluher]], Benedict Friedlaender, and the Wandervogel Movement mentioned later in this article]]Projection, guilt, exteriorisation and self-loathing are all important parts of the violently [[anti]]-pedophile psyche.


One example of the need to draw lines and attack a minority comes from Giles<ref>Giles, D. (2003) Media Psychology, Lawrence Erlbaum</ref>:
One example of the need to draw lines and attack a minority comes from Giles<ref>Giles, D. (2003) Media Psychology, Lawrence Erlbaum</ref>:
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<blockquote>''Part of the problem is that heterosexual male desire often sits on a knife between a preference for neonate facial features in women (clear skin, large eyes, high cheekbones) and an intense revulsion toward paedophilia. It could be argued that the ferocity of assaults on convicted (child) sex offenders and the mob violence often enacted against rehabilitating child abusers are driven partly by the need for heterosexual men to have clear boundaries between what is acceptable sexual desire (i.e., the youngest, healthiest, fertile female) and what is not (legally protected children). If a subgroup of men can be clearly identified and labelled, it reduces the uncertainty surrounding their own borderline desire for young-looking women.''</blockquote>
<blockquote>''Part of the problem is that heterosexual male desire often sits on a knife between a preference for neonate facial features in women (clear skin, large eyes, high cheekbones) and an intense revulsion toward paedophilia. It could be argued that the ferocity of assaults on convicted (child) sex offenders and the mob violence often enacted against rehabilitating child abusers are driven partly by the need for heterosexual men to have clear boundaries between what is acceptable sexual desire (i.e., the youngest, healthiest, fertile female) and what is not (legally protected children). If a subgroup of men can be clearly identified and labelled, it reduces the uncertainty surrounding their own borderline desire for young-looking women.''</blockquote>


And Bluher (1953):
And [[Hans Bluher|Bluher]] (1953):


<blockquote>''In prosecuting pedophiles, a man struggles against the suspicion that he could be one himself and, seeking reassurance, he exteriorizes his own inner battlefield.''</blockquote>
<blockquote>''In prosecuting pedophiles, a man struggles against the suspicion that he could be one himself and, seeking reassurance, he exteriorizes his own inner battlefield.''</blockquote>
Line 13: Line 13:
[[Jim Gamble]] (former [[CEOP]]):
[[Jim Gamble]] (former [[CEOP]]):


<blockquote>''They (paedophile hunter groups) attract people with domestic abuse records and coercive control. They give people the opportunity to reinvent themselves as a good person and create this status, to build a Facebook or a Twitter following. [...] It makes them feel good about who they are and allows them to mask some of their other behaviors.''<ref>[https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/26/online-paedophile-hunters-abusers-trying-reinvent-good-people Jim Gamble]</ref></blockquote>
<blockquote>''They (paedophile hunter groups) attract people with domestic abuse records and coercive control. They give people the opportunity to reinvent themselves as a good person and create this status, to build a Facebook or a [[MAP visibility on Twitter|Twitter]] following. ''[...]'' It makes them feel good about who they are and allows them to mask some of their other behaviors.''<ref>[https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/26/online-paedophile-hunters-abusers-trying-reinvent-good-people Jim Gamble]</ref></blockquote>
 
[[Kenneth Lanning]] (former FBI special agent on sexual crimes against children, when asked by [[Chris Hansen]] about profiling a police officer caught with child pornography):
 
<blockquote>''It's a very troubling issue for me, because when I was actively involved in the FBI, and I was putting people together ''[...]'' I got to know, particularly in the early days, most of the officers who were involved in these kind of investigations, and as the years went by, several of them turned out to be offenders themselves ''[...]'' they somehow convince themselves that what they are doing is "different" ...''<ref>[https://fstube.net/w/pRPSQ3A3y3jac3hqkAMSTZ From 12.30 mins]</ref></blockquote>


If the history of art is to be believed, it would appear that child nudes are widely appreciated and idolized aesthetically. It is easy to understand how widely these physical attractions toward the sensuality and bodies of prepubescent children must be felt, and the guilt this must cause in cultures disposed towards demonizing or denying it. Through reaction formation, we externalize the resultant desire to distance ourselves from these attractions by attacking others who fit the stereotype.
If the history of art is to be believed, it would appear that child nudes are widely appreciated and idolized aesthetically. It is easy to understand how widely these physical attractions toward the sensuality and bodies of prepubescent children must be felt, and the guilt this must cause in cultures disposed towards demonizing or denying it. Through reaction formation, we externalize the resultant desire to distance ourselves from these attractions by attacking others who fit the stereotype.


This tendency is particularly pronounced in individuals who - for example, attack the "pedophile other" as "wanting to rape babies". The imputation of such extreme motives derives from a need to distance the "other" from one's own strong erotic attraction to pubescent girls - [[hebephilia]], or younger. Further, a Pseudoexclusive [[Teleiophilia|Teleiophile]] (who likely has a [[Hebephilia|hebephilic]] attraction of some sort) will often sharply accuse others of "''thinking it's ok'' to... (unlawful sex/other activity with children)" or similar. When used in an isolated and emotional manner, this is seen as a "tell" for psychological repression or conscious control of hebephilic interest. This is because they are projecting unto the "other", an acceptance of condemned desires - failure to police the internal moral boundaries they are struggling with themselves.
This tendency is particularly pronounced in individuals who - for example, attack the "pedophile other" as "wanting to rape babies". The imputation of such extreme motives derives from a need to distance the "other" from what is in most cases their own strong erotic attraction to pubescent girls - preferential or non-preferential [[hebephilia]]. Pseudoexclusive [[Teleiophilia|Teleiophiles]] (who generally experience a [[Hebephilia|hebephilic]] attraction of some sort) will often emotionally accuse others of "''thinking it's ok'' to fuck children". This is seen as a "tell" for psychological repression or conscious control of hebephilic/pedophilic interest, because the violent anti is projecting unto his target, an ''acceptance'' of condemned desires. The most obvious mode of attack would be simply asserting that his target is a pedophile and he is not, yet the attacker insists upon a ''merely moral'' boundary between himself and his victim. This is highly suggestive as to the true motives for the attack.


==History of Homosexuality==
==History of homosexuality==


[[File:Bluherinnerbattlefield.png|180px|thumb|right|Quote in meme format]]Reaction formation is better known as a historical feature of gay culture, in societies where [[homosexuality]] is widely condemned. In addition to the well-documented history of homosexuality and [[pederasty]] in the German far-right movement, present day trends also shed light on this psychological mechanism. For example, insistently "masculine", "straight" affected forms of male homosexuality continue to exist alongside and sometimes in opposition to its camp affected varieties. While these definitively masculine identities may have entered gay culture because of a mixture of self-hate and fetishization, intensely masculine homosexuality is now appreciated in and of itself. Clearer examples can be observed in the reactions of questioning gay or bisexual men who have moved from a "straight" lifestyle, some of whom will verbally or physically attack, blame and deny after engaging in gay sex "acts" they can not reconcile with their assumed sexual identity. Plethysmograph studies in which decidedly homophobic men were more than twice as likely to be aroused by gay stimuli as the nonhomophobic men, would appear to back this up.<ref>Adams HE, Wright LW Jr, Lohr BA. ''Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?''. J Abnorm Psychol. 1996 Aug;105(3):440-5.</ref>
[[File:Bluherinnerbattlefield.png|180px|thumb|right|Quote in meme format]]Reaction formation is better known as a historical feature of gay culture, in societies where [[homosexuality]] is widely condemned. In addition to the well-documented history of bisexuality and [[pederasty]] in the prewar German far-right movement,<ref>[https://pinko.online/pinko-2/reactionary-masculinity Reactionary Masculinity ... September 4, 2020 • Pinko #2]</ref><ref>John Lauritsen and [[David Thorstad]], [http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=2DEA573FDCD494DF85C847B7009FA484 The Early Homosexual Rights Movement (1864–1935)]</ref><ref>[https://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/thorstad_1986.htm Man-Boy Love Then and Now]: A Personal-Political Appraisal, by David Thorstad (PDF also saved at, [https://www.newgon.net/wiki/images/Man_boy_love_then_and_now_by_David_Thorstad.pdf Newgon])</ref> present day trends also shed light on this psychological mechanism. For example, insistently "masculine", "straight" affected forms of male homosexuality continue to exist alongside and sometimes in opposition to its camp affected varieties. While these definitively masculine identities may have entered gay culture because of a mixture of self-hate and fetishization, intensely masculine homosexuality is now appreciated in and of itself. Clearer examples can be observed in the reactions of questioning gay or bisexual men who have moved from a "straight" lifestyle, some of whom will verbally or physically attack, blame and deny after engaging in gay sex "acts" they can not reconcile with their assumed sexual identity. Plethysmograph studies in which decidedly homophobic men were more than twice as likely to be aroused by gay stimuli as the nonhomophobic men, would appear to back this up.<ref>[https://sci-hub.se/10.1037/0021-843x.105.3.440 Adams HE, Wright LW Jr, Lohr BA. ''Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?'']. J Abnorm Psychol. 1996 Aug;105(3):440-5. See also science-media reports, which frame this as [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/freud.html "latent homosexuality"] in bisexual men, rather than [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-big-questions/201106/homophobic-men-are-aroused-gay-male-porn homosexual inclination per se].</ref>


==Lolicon-MAP Equivalence Debate==
==Lolicon-MAP Equivalence Debate==


The [[Lolicon-MAP Equivalence Debate]] is a more contemporary example of reaction-formation in the form of distancing. It relates to the need for "Lolicons" (avid consumers of drawn female child erotica) to express hate for MAPs, minors, and deny that they are attracted to minors.
The [[Lolicon-MAP Equivalence Debate]] is a more contemporary example of reaction-formation in the form of distancing. It relates to the need for "Lolicons" (avid consumers of drawn female child erotica) to express hate for MAPs, minors, and deny that they are attracted to minors.
=="Dark-Ego-Vehicle Principle"==
One recently tested theory, the ''Dark-Ego-Vehicle Principle'', posits that individuals with so-called dark personalities (e.g., individuals with high narcissistic traits) are attracted to political and social activism not for the achievement of prosocial goals but to repurpose the activism to satisfy their specific ego-focused needs. Anti-sexual-assault activism and activist [[Feminism]] have been associated with such character traits in statistical analyses.<ref>[https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/gkab8 Bertrams, A., & Krispenz, A. (2022, July 30). Dark Ego Vehicle: Narcissism as a Predictor of Anti-Sexual Assault Activism.]</ref><ref>[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12144-023-05451-x#citeas Krispenz, A., Bertrams, A. Further basic evidence for the dark-ego-vehicle principle: Higher pathological narcissism is associated with greater involvement in feminist activism. Curr Psychol (2023).]</ref>


==Gallery of self-owns==
==Gallery of self-owns==


<gallery>
Various people with extreme anti-pedophile beliefs, or a connection to the child protection industry, have ultimately been caught with their pants down.
File:Selfown.png|David Abbott (cop)
 
File:Anime2.png|Peter Newell (child advocate)
{{Template:APSO}}
File:Anime.jpeg|Peter Bright (anti - gamergater)
File:Battisson.png|Cameron Battisson (vigilante)
File:UPIUNICEF.png|Jozef Verbeek (UNICEF)
</gallery>


==References==
==References==

Latest revision as of 17:51, 6 May 2024

In Freudian terms, the defense mechanism of Reaction Formation.
Early manifestations of the German far-right sometimes asserted an insistently masculine bisexual/pederastic identity, highly disdainful towards effeminate homosexuals and women, something seen as supportive of nation building. This was exemplified by figures such as Hans Bluher, Benedict Friedlaender, and the Wandervogel Movement mentioned later in this article

Projection, guilt, exteriorisation and self-loathing are all important parts of the violently anti-pedophile psyche.

One example of the need to draw lines and attack a minority comes from Giles[1]:

Part of the problem is that heterosexual male desire often sits on a knife between a preference for neonate facial features in women (clear skin, large eyes, high cheekbones) and an intense revulsion toward paedophilia. It could be argued that the ferocity of assaults on convicted (child) sex offenders and the mob violence often enacted against rehabilitating child abusers are driven partly by the need for heterosexual men to have clear boundaries between what is acceptable sexual desire (i.e., the youngest, healthiest, fertile female) and what is not (legally protected children). If a subgroup of men can be clearly identified and labelled, it reduces the uncertainty surrounding their own borderline desire for young-looking women.

And Bluher (1953):

In prosecuting pedophiles, a man struggles against the suspicion that he could be one himself and, seeking reassurance, he exteriorizes his own inner battlefield.

Jim Gamble (former CEOP):

They (paedophile hunter groups) attract people with domestic abuse records and coercive control. They give people the opportunity to reinvent themselves as a good person and create this status, to build a Facebook or a Twitter following. [...] It makes them feel good about who they are and allows them to mask some of their other behaviors.[2]

Kenneth Lanning (former FBI special agent on sexual crimes against children, when asked by Chris Hansen about profiling a police officer caught with child pornography):

It's a very troubling issue for me, because when I was actively involved in the FBI, and I was putting people together [...] I got to know, particularly in the early days, most of the officers who were involved in these kind of investigations, and as the years went by, several of them turned out to be offenders themselves [...] they somehow convince themselves that what they are doing is "different" ...[3]

If the history of art is to be believed, it would appear that child nudes are widely appreciated and idolized aesthetically. It is easy to understand how widely these physical attractions toward the sensuality and bodies of prepubescent children must be felt, and the guilt this must cause in cultures disposed towards demonizing or denying it. Through reaction formation, we externalize the resultant desire to distance ourselves from these attractions by attacking others who fit the stereotype.

This tendency is particularly pronounced in individuals who - for example, attack the "pedophile other" as "wanting to rape babies". The imputation of such extreme motives derives from a need to distance the "other" from what is in most cases their own strong erotic attraction to pubescent girls - preferential or non-preferential hebephilia. Pseudoexclusive Teleiophiles (who generally experience a hebephilic attraction of some sort) will often emotionally accuse others of "thinking it's ok to fuck children". This is seen as a "tell" for psychological repression or conscious control of hebephilic/pedophilic interest, because the violent anti is projecting unto his target, an acceptance of condemned desires. The most obvious mode of attack would be simply asserting that his target is a pedophile and he is not, yet the attacker insists upon a merely moral boundary between himself and his victim. This is highly suggestive as to the true motives for the attack.

History of homosexuality

Quote in meme format

Reaction formation is better known as a historical feature of gay culture, in societies where homosexuality is widely condemned. In addition to the well-documented history of bisexuality and pederasty in the prewar German far-right movement,[4][5][6] present day trends also shed light on this psychological mechanism. For example, insistently "masculine", "straight" affected forms of male homosexuality continue to exist alongside and sometimes in opposition to its camp affected varieties. While these definitively masculine identities may have entered gay culture because of a mixture of self-hate and fetishization, intensely masculine homosexuality is now appreciated in and of itself. Clearer examples can be observed in the reactions of questioning gay or bisexual men who have moved from a "straight" lifestyle, some of whom will verbally or physically attack, blame and deny after engaging in gay sex "acts" they can not reconcile with their assumed sexual identity. Plethysmograph studies in which decidedly homophobic men were more than twice as likely to be aroused by gay stimuli as the nonhomophobic men, would appear to back this up.[7]

Lolicon-MAP Equivalence Debate

The Lolicon-MAP Equivalence Debate is a more contemporary example of reaction-formation in the form of distancing. It relates to the need for "Lolicons" (avid consumers of drawn female child erotica) to express hate for MAPs, minors, and deny that they are attracted to minors.

"Dark-Ego-Vehicle Principle"

One recently tested theory, the Dark-Ego-Vehicle Principle, posits that individuals with so-called dark personalities (e.g., individuals with high narcissistic traits) are attracted to political and social activism not for the achievement of prosocial goals but to repurpose the activism to satisfy their specific ego-focused needs. Anti-sexual-assault activism and activist Feminism have been associated with such character traits in statistical analyses.[8][9]

Gallery of self-owns

Various people with extreme anti-pedophile beliefs, or a connection to the child protection industry, have ultimately been caught with their pants down.

  • Carl Beech - NSPCC/"Safeguarding" expert and celebrity accuser
    Carl Beech - NSPCC/"Safeguarding" expert and celebrity accuser
  • David Abbott (pedo-cop)
    David Abbott (pedo-cop)
  • Peter Newell (child advocate)
    Peter Newell (child advocate)
  • Peter Bright (anti-gamergater)
    Peter Bright (anti-gamergater)
  • Christopher Goldberg (anti-gamergater)[10]
    Christopher Goldberg (anti-gamergater)[10]
  • Cameron Battisson (British vigilante)
    Cameron Battisson (British vigilante)
  • Carl Windsor (another British vigilante)
    Carl Windsor (another British vigilante)
  • Carl Robinson (another British vigilante)
    Carl Robinson (another British vigilante)
  • Michael Terry (another British paedo hunter)[11]
    Michael Terry (another British paedo hunter)[11]
  • Tim Heron (yet another British vigilante)[12]
    Tim Heron (yet another British vigilante)[12]
  • Paul Tong (British vigilante - surprise)[13]
    Paul Tong (British vigilante - surprise)[13]
  • Marcel Vervloesem (Belgian vigilante, subsequently found guilty,[14] see also Dutroux victims' Lawyer[15])
    Marcel Vervloesem (Belgian vigilante, subsequently found guilty,[14] see also Dutroux victims' Lawyer[15])
  • Jozef Verbeek (UNICEF)
    Jozef Verbeek (UNICEF)
  • Brian Carrigan (American Vigilante)[16]
    Brian Carrigan (American Vigilante)[16]
  • Dave Todeschini (Q-Anon)[17]
    Dave Todeschini (Q-Anon)[17]
  • Phil Godlewski (Q-Anon)
    Phil Godlewski (Q-Anon)
  • Ben Gibson (More Q-Anon)[18]
    Ben Gibson (More Q-Anon)[18]
  • "Pedogate" Reddit Mod (Q-Anon/Pizzagate)[19]
    "Pedogate" Reddit Mod (Q-Anon/Pizzagate)[19]
  • Joshua Jennings - (Q-Anon)[20]
    Joshua Jennings - (Q-Anon)[20]
  • Sean McHugh - Anti-pedophile protestor, for sex with a 14 year old[21]
    Sean McHugh - Anti-pedophile protestor, for sex with a 14 year old[21]
  • Alden Bunag (Twitter SJW)[22]
    Alden Bunag (Twitter SJW)[22]
  • Stephen King - British "Child Sex Abuse Expert"
    Stephen King - British "Child Sex Abuse Expert"
  • Kevin Strom - US Neo Nazi[23]
    Kevin Strom - US Neo Nazi[23]
  • Joel Davis - "Sexual Violence" TedX expert, UN Youth Ambassador[24]
    Joel Davis - "Sexual Violence" TedX expert, UN Youth Ambassador[24]
  • Michael Dolce - "Protect Children" child sex abuse attorney, award-winning "sexual violence" media figurehead.[25]
    Michael Dolce - "Protect Children" child sex abuse attorney, award-winning "sexual violence" media figurehead.[25]
  • Police officers are hugely over-represented among child porn users. See also, Ken Lanning's testimony[26]
    Police officers are hugely over-represented among child porn users. See also, Ken Lanning's testimony[26]
  • Kevin A. Kovacs - D.A.R.E. Child Safety Instructor
    Kevin A. Kovacs - D.A.R.E. Child Safety Instructor
  • Frank J. Collins (accusation against law-enforcement backed sex abuse clown). In 1986.[27]
    Frank J. Collins (accusation against law-enforcement backed sex abuse clown). In 1986.[27]
  • Neil Cohen: US Dem Lawmaker[28]
    Neil Cohen: US Dem Lawmaker[28]
  • Christopher Jarvis, Safeguarding police expert[29]
    Christopher Jarvis, Safeguarding police expert[29]
  • Cody Dallas Reed - "Kill Pedophiles" Corrections Officer[30]
    Cody Dallas Reed - "Kill Pedophiles" Corrections Officer[30]
  • Collaged examples For a larger collage see here.
    Collaged examples For a larger collage see here.

References

  1. ↑ Giles, D. (2003) Media Psychology, Lawrence Erlbaum
  2. ↑ Jim Gamble
  3. ↑ From 12.30 mins
  4. ↑ Reactionary Masculinity ... September 4, 2020 • Pinko #2
  5. ↑ John Lauritsen and David Thorstad, The Early Homosexual Rights Movement (1864–1935)
  6. ↑ Man-Boy Love Then and Now: A Personal-Political Appraisal, by David Thorstad (PDF also saved at, Newgon)
  7. ↑ Adams HE, Wright LW Jr, Lohr BA. Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?. J Abnorm Psychol. 1996 Aug;105(3):440-5. See also science-media reports, which frame this as "latent homosexuality" in bisexual men, rather than homosexual inclination per se.
  8. ↑ Bertrams, A., & Krispenz, A. (2022, July 30). Dark Ego Vehicle: Narcissism as a Predictor of Anti-Sexual Assault Activism.
  9. ↑ Krispenz, A., Bertrams, A. Further basic evidence for the dark-ego-vehicle principle: Higher pathological narcissism is associated with greater involvement in feminist activism. Curr Psychol (2023).
  10. ↑ Christopher Goldberg charges
  11. ↑ Lincs Reporter on Michael Terry
  12. ↑ IRONY: Self-styled paedophile hunter convicted of having child abuse image 'risk to public' court hears
  13. ↑ Paul Tong: Metro
  14. ↑ FR Wikipedia: Marcel Vervloesem
  15. ↑ Dutroux's Lawyer charged (and subsequently convicted) of CP
  16. ↑ Teen Vigilante from Montco Who Targeted Pedophiles Online is Arrested on Child Porn Charges
  17. ↑ Bryan Dawson Twitter thread, video of Dave Todeschini of Q Anon
  18. ↑ Ben Gibson - Rawstory
  19. ↑ DailyDot: Pedogate
  20. ↑ Insider: Joshua Jennings
  21. ↑ Sean McHugh
  22. ↑ DoJ: Bunag sentence
  23. ↑ Strom's anti-pedophile Jewish conspiracy essay
  24. ↑ Daily Sabah - Joel Davis
  25. ↑ Daily Mail: Arrest of Michael Dolce
  26. ↑ From 12.30 mins
  27. ↑ Frank Collins UPI
  28. ↑ CBS News: Example of Cohen's publicity
  29. ↑ Roman Catholic church's paedophile investigator jailed for possessing thousands of child porn images
  30. ↑ Corrections Officer Who Called for Killing Pedophiles Arrested on Child Porn Charges
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